In canvas 2025, what if we ganged up against the largest country flag, whichever it is?

If you don’t want to see flags, don’t participate.

Or alternatively we [people who don't want to see larger flags seizing the space that should be taken by more meaningful stuff] can gather support to fight back within the rules of the Canvas, even if you found such a polite way to rephrase "if you don't like what we do, fuck off and don't play".

And I'm not even saying here "don't post flags at all". I'm saying "cut the larger flags down to size".

country flags have their place on there just as much as the endless brand logos, ponies and amongus crewmates.

And if left alone, their "place" becomes the whole canvas. We all know how nationalists are like - give them a hand and they'll scream "THE WHOLE ARM IS MY REICH".

Due to the purpose of my post, I am focusing solely on the larger flags in the Canvas, a fact that you "conveniently" skipped past. And, instead of trying to proselytise my views, unlike you, I'm trying to gather people with common grounds, even with different views.

So I'll let my rambling against flags in general to another opportunity, and focus solely on the Canvas.

The point of flag is, that they are (usually) easier [to] coordinate, draw and restore.

In other words: they're boring and unoriginal, and take space of things that actually take more effort and cooperation to pull out.

I suppose they [who?] will alway[s] start with the flag because it is our culture but also define a drawing zone.

Both points are red herrings and you likely know it.

I disagree with any form of va[n]dalism,

Cut off the bullshit.

If you were actually concerned about vandalism you wouldn't be defending country flags at all, given that they're the major source of vandalism (more than the void).

Pick a timelapse of the canvas and see it by yourself.

but you may invit[e] them drawing their monument :)

Or alternatively I could tell them that their "monument" (pfffttt... holy fuck calling a dirty flag a "monument" is hilariously cringey) is taking off too much space, and gather other like-minded people to do it.

That is what I am doing here.

You're being at the very least disingenuous, if not worse, so I won't waste my time further with you.

Limiting the template regardless of what's being drawn is an idea worth discussing with the devs.

Oh wow. I had to go back to check for the Australian flag. Took me a bit to notice the blue and the two stars around the British Flag.

There is no reason to be an asshole and ruin stuff for no good reason.

Except when it's a rainbow, a flag of another government, or Tux's foot. Right? /s

I'm not blaming specifically you eathan for this, before you jump to conclusions. But even you should acknowledge that the main sort of people "being an arsehole and ruining stuff for no good reason" are flag posters. And I would not be surprised if they were the major ones behind botting and multi-accounting too.

Just keep it small.

I’m satisfied with how things turned out, with art going all over the flag and the stars shining through, but it didn’t seem considerate in the beginning.

It's often like this, to give you a false impression of a compromise. I've seen it all the time in r/place, for example. (Doubly true in pixelplanet, but that's... eh, let's say that biggest drawing there is a swastika.)

And typically, it goes like this:

1. Claim a huge space of the canvas for the sake of the flag.
2. Lay waste over whatever is in the middle of the way, be it drawings or flags from other herds.
3. "Oh fuck, it's too big for us to defend. People are drawing random stuff over it."
4. Eventually let the people drawing random stuff to do it, under the terms dictated by the flag itself. Under a discourse that sounds a lot like "this is the land of Our Holy Symbol. However, since we're magnanimous, we shall turn a blind eye to your doodle defacing it."
5. [If applicable] Shift the blame of the step #2 on others. "Nooo, I didn't do it. Others did."

Besides the façade of compromise, there's also a second motivation for fourth last step: it's a way to co-opt people drawing random stuff to protect the flag, as they likely care about the surroundings of their own drawings.

Please do note, however, that people drawing those large flags do not want to reach an actual compromise. And playing nice (cooperation) only works if the other side is also playing nice - we shouldn't be playing dove in a hawk-dove game.

Sorry for the double reply. Another thing that I realised in the meantime is that people working on flags won't be willing to divert time too much time to undo defacement of another flag. So as long as we concentrate our efforts towards a single flag, the opposition of other flag-posters will be spotty at best.

That flaw is an issue, indeed. And it's worth thinking on ways to reduce it.

However, there are two things in our side:

1. the proportion of people holding critic and informed views about flags on Canvas is likely way higher than in r/place.
2. due to the nature of the symbol in question (country flags), herds of "large-flaggers" will likely have trouble coordinating with each other.

Ultimately, flags are just symbols similar to any other logo.

Emphasis mine. I get your reasoning here and I agree with it; it's just that those specific symbols are egregiously problematic in this sort of "collab+compete Paint simulator".

Will you organise a Matrix chat for this?

Now I will - that's a great idea.

I'm planning to do so when the next Canvas is announced, in 2025, as people will be a bit more pumped up to join than now. (For now I'm mostly gauging interest on the idea.)

When I do it, do you want me to ping you?

could we incorporate artwork over the flag like it happened with the Australian flag?

My main idea is to deface the flag, so I'd ask people to not integrate the artwork. But if you do integrate the artwork I'd ask people to leave it alone and focus on the flag itself, so it would be safe.

As already discussed ad nauseam through the thread:

People who don't want those huge flags in the canvas have the exact same right to organise themselves and use the rules of the game to undo those flags, as the people who are making those flags. So cut off this "you either leave them alone or sod off" discourse, OK? That's what you're saying under different words.

Not even the void is trolling.

Annoyance in this sort of online game is part of the game, like it or not.

I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning here. You're saying that people shouldn't be proud of things that they have no control over? As a gay guy, should I not be able to put up a pride flag?

There's a ton of symbolism/meaning there, and doesn't always mean blind devotion to a country.

Frankly, ditto. And it's icky for me specially when people conflate country with culture, like those people rather consistently do.

And... like, I get that we [people in general] get spammed by our governments with ideology, in order to ditch all available identities that we have at our disposal, and adopt the country-based identity that benefits the government. It's more often than not fuel for oppression.