Both egoism and altruism are human nature. We are capable of both (for the most part). Currently, we have a socioeconomic system that rewards and encourages primarily the former. Why not try it the other way and see where that brings us?
28I'd like to point out the viability of cooperatives to accomplish this. A co-op is defined by the seven Rochdale Principles. Among those is open and voluntary membership, democratic member control, cooperation among cooperatives, and concern for community.
Its a stateless form of socialism that gives workers ownership to the means of production and doesnt have to necessarily negate private ownership. They can simply be incentivized by the state similar to how tax breaks and subsidies currently work or by providing workers the framework for which to purchase a company in the case of failure (like after the 2008 financial crash - when competition, greed, and capitalism failed).
4I wonder how well a system would work where you get more money, the more you help people/help solve problems (with problems i mean like pollution or something)
2I kind of fail to see how a life in which all my basic needs are secured as long as I agree for them to be secured for everyone else, thus freeing me from anxiously giving my life to the futile attempt to crawl above others, is "altruistic". Working your ass off for nothing but your crude survival and the benefit of a handful of others doesn't seem very selfish if you put it in this perspective.
In any case, whatever is going on right now - it's... not good, to say the least. Wanting to fix the problem with the problem is horribly naive.
Anyway, nice meme.
-1
My response is always is it not human nature for many to be violent towards others and yet few would say that's ok. The answer is simple, humans are fundementally more then their base instincts and desires. If humanity were nothing more then animals then society as we know it would have never formed.
20Based response, even though I wouldn't say I'm a communist, more social democratic
9You're a social democrat because you would vote for socialism... only to end up in a full blown socialist nation, good bye, "democracy".. (kind of like what the DNC did just recently, select, not elect).
Humans aren't as dumb as you'd like to believe, we know socialist will do anything and everything to trick people into socialism.
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Exactly. Our ability to use language, create culture, abstract ideas and concepts and step outside of them are the ingredients that allow us to transcend our evolutionary instincts and urges, and that’s exactly what we should do when building a society and culture.
2
There is no such thing as human nature only human habit
12I'm currently reading a book which argues that "most people, deep down, are actually pretty decent". It's really good, highly recommend to anyone. It's called "Human Kind" by Rutger Bregman
11Game theorists in shambles
2
Communism is against human nature.
Along with every social construct that we make including laws and traditions. We make these rules precisely to counter the human nature in an attempt to create a better society, though not all are by intentional design. What is good for an isolated sole single individual is very different for a whole society and a prosperous society benefits individuals to have different opportunities than a lone actor. For example, a society where you aren't constantly worried about theft allows you to engage in trade more freely and thus able to trade more. The act of limiting personal freedom (nature) to steal, in turn, allowed society to have an increase in ability to trade.
What is closer to human nature is going to be more easily accepted by humans. And free market is closer to nature than communism. That is why it was invented first and what has set place first. If communism is indeed what society as a whole feels is better for society, they will constantly shift towards it. Some may argue similar to Canada or Scandinavian countries. Though I wouldn't define what they're shifting to as communism because countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc. score higher than USA in economic freedom index (free market). But, that discussion would go off course from topic of what is true communism which has no end.
Last 2 panels of the OP's memes refer more greatly to individual actions rather than societal actions. I'm sure certain individuals will help and be charitable. Though as a whole would be obviously less than communism since certain definitions of communism would be a mathematical maximum of reduction of poor due to equalization.
0The last two panels refer to structuring society based on the expectation that wealthy people will share, which is basically the trickle down argument.
13That interpretation seems more like your own opinion rather than the opinion of those who actually say that. I see little causal relevance between charity and trickle down economics.
You have to think more impartially to understand why these two train of thoughts have little to no intersection. Do you know why these people you're characterizing are saying "people are generous"? Because like you said, greed is simultaneously said. If you get it, you'll see it's not about trickle down.
Additionally the general right wing argument for the structuring society around volunteer charity over forced social care is that volunteer format is enough from the view of the giver, not that they will get enough from the view of the receiver. If that happens to be nothing, they're saying so be it. If that happens to be a lot, that's great. The argument is also about having the option to choose where they help rather than a government body choosing it... Though I don't think individuals could possibly know though to choose well.
I am not making an argument for the right or left. I'm just fixing the polarized viewpoint of the other party.
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(You are mixing economic systems with market systems - as if communism can't have free markets or that capitalism can't come up with a law that 99% of the profits must be shared as bonuses to all workers)
How do you know free market is closer to human nature (which isn't a thing)?
Especially when more than 99% of the time humans lived is socialist communes (ie communism).
(Not to mention most animals live in communistic systems, and none have free-markets.)And especially when even in free markets vast majority of the people (workers) don't really participate in it directly.
Also humans with their blood thought and achieved that free market isn't a thing, that we have governments that regulate at minimum things that just cannot ever work in a free market.
Thats a bit like a mediaeval peasant saying its 'human nature' to want feudalism.
And a bit like saying revolutions and socioeconomic system changes arent in human nature.
Even the argument of human greediness isn't an argument for capitalism - the system decides what you are greedy for (capital in capitalism, land in feudalism, commune (respect) in communism, seashells in seashellsism).
In each -ism you can be greedy.
3Complete communism can't have free market by definition. And complete free market can't have laws to redistribute profits. That is the definition of these words. The theoretical maximum definition obviously differs from actual application as nothing is applied in a complete sense.
Revolutions and socioeconomic systems aren't human nature. Along with all your above examples. My entire point is that there is a difference between individual human nature and the societal nature. Your point of human nature wanting feudalism is opposite of my point. I'm stating that EVERY SINGLE social construct you can imagine or think of is not of the individual nature but the societal one, including feudalism. And that less of construct you require is closer to human nature. More construct required is further away from human nature. That is, communism requires greater management by the society than the free market to exist, and thus is further from human nature. You may choose to define "human nature" differently, but this is how I see it.
1... wELL teCHniCAllY nO mArKEt iS aCTUallY frEe
1
I'm sure I'll find a guy with a box of 100 samples who will take my random box of tech scrap! Or I could pay him 5 quid and save the hassle.
-2There are two arguments being combined here. The first half is regarding the free rider problem within a theoretical communist society. The second is regarding care of the less fortunate within a voluntaryist society. They are both valid arguments without proven answers outside of theory.
-6They're both invalid arguments with proven answers throughout history. The free rider problem hasn't existed in Communists states any more than in capitalist ones, meanwhile we know for a fact that trickle down economics does not work.
9They’re both invalid arguments with proven answers throughout history. The free rider problem hasn’t existed in Communists states any more than in capitalist ones, meanwhile we know for a fact that trickle down economics does not work.
Your post isn't an answer to either argument nor has anything been "proven". Communism is a stateless society, and I can't think of a time that has existed before the birth of nations. The free rider problem is what happens in a communist society when those who decide not to contribute become a burden upon those who do. Trickle down economics has nothing to do with charitable giving within a voluntary market-driven society, but is a term used to describe stronger economic growth based on reduced tax burdens for the upper economic class.
-3
Free market and capitalism is much much less proven than living in communes (communism).
Even feudalism is a more proven system by that logic.
4
OP, I'm curious what capitalist billionaire doesn't donate? Do you know of any? Last I check, the charity donation loophole is utilized by the wealthy.
Is donating to charity worth the tax deduction? By using the proper tax planning strategies, charitable contributions can reduce three kinds of federal taxes: income, capital gains and estate taxes.
So.. wtf is the problem? They're donating. Why aren't you happy?
-11So.. wtf is the problem? They're donating. Why aren't you happy?
It’s another way billionaires are taking away power from the common people. They are donating money and reducing their taxes by doing so. What it effectively means is that instead of the democratically elected government deciding on what causes that money is spent on, the billionaires get to decide instead.
5If someone mugs me and then hands me a dollar, that is charity.
5
Don't you see the contradiction in your own meme? The clown says "we are born selfish" and then goes on to say "people are generous". This in itself is a massive contradiction.
-13Do you think that might have something to do with why he’s portrayed as a clown?
20imagine lacking the brainpower to understand a 4 panel meme
18
