We'll have a long memory as things get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women

As non-american I agree you guys should definitely vote Harris, despite Dems being terrible Trump would absolutely be worse on each topic Dems are bad. That being said, rethoric of this post is straight up facist. Using threats of personal consequences for "wrongly" exercising ones right to vote is wild.

I'll vote Dem, but I am ashamed beyond measure of the Dem party. Despite the public doing all they can to stop Trump, the actual candidates running against Trump are sitting on their asses and refusing to take serious action. This "Blue Wave" is not approval FOR Harris-Walz, but rather DISAPPROVAL for Trump. Dems are ultimately more responsible for fascism in the U.S. than their voters.

All in all, the entire United States Government is at fault. This is just one reason why I want an independent Cascadia.

Unrelated to the message - that's a bad use of the meme, doesn't fit at all.

Interesting how everyone blames the people and not the corporate party that doesn't represent the people. If Democrats are struggling to get leftist votes then I suggest they do things that will make leftists vote for them.

Dumbest hot takes on the Internet be like:

This is the most horrible way to convince people to vote with you. I, personally, would tell you to go fuck yourself if I weren't already voting for Harris. Please stop that. You need to convince people why they should vote for your candidate by showing them the difference, not this "or else" bullshit. and if they are not convinced, you let it go. People are free with their damn votes.

Abstaining or voting third party is an exercise of choice. If you want your candidate to win, vote for them, as we all should do.

Vote for the candidate you support. If you don't support any, you can choose not to vote.

I love how in the US getting Hitler elected would just be a matter of having a total of one worse person run for president. Then the Dems would be selling him as the saviour of the working class and minorities.

"What? Third party? You might as well be voting for Hitl... Wait"

If Kamala looses: All of the blame gets put on third party voters for not "voting hard enough" (especially if she wins the popular vote and looses in the electoral college). Absolutely none of the blame gets put on her supporting genocide, her vague positions, the fact that her campaign page contains very little about her views or policies, her support of fracking, her general support of oil and gas, her support of genocide, and her support for imperialism. Of course that could all be incorrect but Kamala refuses to dispute those claims.

If Kamala wins: She will do basically nothing, compromise with the Republicans, allow states to ban abortion, allow states to restrict womens rights, allow states to ban trans healthcare, generally allow the far-right to do whatever they want, and continue to fund genocide. When all of this happens third party voters will be blamed for "not voting hard enough" and Kamala will take no responsibility whatever.

Regardless of outcome the next election: The Democrat candidate will be even more right wing because leftists didn't "vote hard enough", they will be even more bipartisan and even less progressive. All of the Liberals will demand everyone vote for this candidate yet the candidate will make no attempt to implement any popular policy. Americas rapid decline into fascism will continue and nobody in power will do anything to stop it.

Once again I ask the question what harm is reduced by "harm reduction"? If anything a more accurate term would be slowing down fascism. But what Liberals refuse to answer is what practical purpose is there to slowing down fascism? Congratulations you get maybe a few extra decades from fascism but then what? Clearly Liberals are buying their time but what exactly are they buying their time for? What is the grand strategy? We've already seen the Democratic Candidate clearly use fascist rhetoric, how long is it until these compromise candidates compromise the rights of minorities? How long until they compromise on Fascism? I would vote "harm reduction" if I knew that at the end of it all theres a plan to eventually fight back but I dont think there is one. I think the Liberal plan is to keep doing "harm reduction" indefinitely, however even if you're a hardcore liberal you have to acknowledge thats a fundamentally unsustainable plan.

TLDR: The only people responsible for Democrats not getting elected are the Democrats themselves and their corporate sponsors who hold them back from instituting popular policy, I get its easy to pin the blame on some group but fundamentally thats little more then a logical fallacy.

The old "if you're not with us then you're against us" position. How about the dems adopt policies that inspire people to vote for them.

This is exactly why we need ranked choice voting.

Winner takes all essentially demoralizes and alienates voters and drives people who agree with each other to fight because they're trapped in a broken system.

So instead of fighting the system, it's easier to just blame other people and alienate more of them against your cause, shooting yourself in the foot with ignorance. It's kind of disgusting.

This is why the American system is weird af.

No, the blame lies squarely on the DNC for deliberately ignoring the loud and clear message from third party voters that genocide is a red line in the sand. The blame further lies with the liberals supporting a decaying Empire and never lifting a finger to help anyone, just showing up at the ballot box every 4 years while the US commits manmade horrors beyond comprehension.

Join an org, like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO), this mess can't be undone by supporting the Dems harder.

Abstaining or voting 3rd party to "make Dems listen" doesn't work. If anyone thinks they can play Mexican Standoff, you can't because the Dems have an out: the center voter. Every time they lose, they go to the center to find voters.

And remember they need all 3 of presidency, house of representatives, and senate to pass pretty much anything. If they don't have all 3 they will go to the center to find voters. Some people call this rachet effect, but really they're looking for voters. Want them to stop 'racheting'? Then give them consistent and overwhelming victories.

Not an American, but yikes does this have "Vote with us... Or else!" vibes.

That's not to say I support Trump, but I personally don't think this is the way to convince fence-sitters at all.

we will have a long memory

Could there be a single more empty threat from a burger-munching American? The whole world will laugh at you for thousands of years until you recede into myths about a people so callous and stupid it beggars belief.

If you have a problem with this line of reasoning then your actual problem is first past the post voting.

Abolish first past the post voting and you can finally actually vote for things you like, rather than against things you hate, but we're stuck in first past the post voting, so, you must vote strategically.

Smug liberals will be condescending regardless of who wins any election.

If you're voting for the lesser evil, you are still voting to reduce harm.

Remember that. You can't save everyone, but if you save NO ONE that's on you.

I get this, but playing it safe is going nowhere. Trump was elected not because he was a decent candidate, but because he was a gamble that paid off in spades.

I am a libertarian minarchist. Look it up before you form ideas.

I don't like Harris but I'd much rather have her over Trump. And that's how I'll vote.

I strongly recommend everyone should research your local elections and vote for candidates that best represent your views and mindsets on a local level. The FPtP system makes third parties mostly unviable in influencing national policy.

voting third party is bad? first past the post problem

You wanna change the Democratic Party? Maybe vote more than once every four years. State and local elections have garbage turnouts and this is where right wingers shore up their power (because they ALWATS vote). You need to vote every election, always. You want left leaning Democrats in office? Their careers start small, at the local and state level. Vote for them there and support them as they gain experience and reputation.

But this griping about the electoral process and lack of choices in a national election is just lazy bullsh*t. Yes, a vote for anyone other than Harris is a vote for Trump at this point.

The harsh reality is that leftists, in their outrage over Gaza, are being manipulated to serve the very forces they claim to oppose. Netanyahu, with the same calculated cynicism as Putin, is using this moment of crisis to bolster his own political survival by helping Trump’s re-election bid. AIPAC, already firmly in the Republican camp, is actively working to secure Trump’s victory, just like the leftists—though they may wear different masks. At the core, both groups are contributing to the same outcome: Trump back in power, where Netanyahu and his far-right allies can continue their genocidal wars unchecked.

Leftists may express moral indignation and feel superior in their righteous anger, but at the end of the day, they are playing right into the hands of Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin. They are weakening Kamala Harris, who has a precarious balancing act between Jewish and Arab-American voters, and ensuring that Trump and his cronies can capitalize on this division. Despite their different emotional reactions along the way, both AIPAC and the leftist protesters are on the same side when it comes to the pragmatic analysis: they’re both paving the way for Trump’s return to power. And that’s all the Republicans, Netanyahu, and Putin truly care about—using anyone, even their critics, to achieve their goals.

It’s deeply ironic that a group that prides itself on its materialist analysis can’t seem to distinguish between what they think they’re fighting for and what they’re actually enabling. They claim to oppose imperialism and oppression, yet their actions are directly aligning with the interests of Netanyahu, Trump, and their right-wing allies. For all their talk of understanding power dynamics, they’re blind to the fact that they’re advancing the very agenda they claim to detest.

Negging is a normal and effective way to pursuade people. Things must be going great for you.

Every four fucking years of my entire voting lifetime is an influx of liberals that are so horny for voting between the lesser of two evil establishment shits that I want to jump off a cliff in Skyrim every time I have to read this type of divisive rhetoric that literally alienates real people with real concerns who would never support Trump. I wish Harris was as leftist as Trump makes her out to be but noooo "sMaLL bUsinEsEs" and "most LETHAL military" and "the bOrdER bill" and "Isntreal has a right to" suck my fucking glock.

I want to go live with the fucking socialist Linux penguins in Antarctica.

These aren’t memes they’re shite propaganda

This is false

Every county in my state always votes red. Due to the way elections are held in this country, it does not matter how I vote. I could vote for Harris, on the tiny chance that enough others will as well, or I could vote 3rd party, and at least increase the percentage of voters doing that so that it doesnt seem as useless next time. Hell, I could vote for trump and there would still be no difference.

Don't alienate your allies if you want them to stay allies

Threatening people is a great way to win them on the side of your cause I hear. /S

Can’t wait for Blue MAGA to win so they can go to brunch and not do any form of direct action or mutual aid for 4 years while the genocides continue, then shit on leftists for not voting hard enough at the next election.

Ah yes, fascism light. No wonder people are voting third party lol.

Funny, Republicans are saying the same thing the other way around. I hope both parties die out fast.

Both sides saying the other will destroy us. The parallels go way farther than anyone is willing to admit. Voting for the "lesser evil" has only led us to this two party system where substance is lost. It is impossible to vote objectively (I always vote) and expect less than regression. My state has become a haven for one side with over a million people moving to this state for political reasons.

I can vote Republican to pretend like things are better while not changing, or getting worse. Or I can vote Democrat to pretend like they aren't going to approve everything Republicans want anyways. Or I can vote for the best candidate who has no chance to win but I have a semblance of pride while the election is predictable in my district and state anyways. Yet I have to not share who I voted for because I will be blamed by both sides for their own engineered and predictable failures.

I am going to get a lot of hate on here for being honest about the situation. I no longer care about that. No I am not a plant from Russia or one of the parties. And, yes I do believe those entities are really helping the division, pushing false narratives and mal-information. However, I do not blame them for the problems. The problems have been engineered from within our own borders. That is a whole other topic with volumes of evidence and books.

We the people have been made ignorant and angry. I don't know how we can recover from this, but I know life is going to suck, no matter who is elected president next month. It WILL only "get worse for working class Americans, minorities and women." And I have no clue how or when it will end. Everytime there is progress and opportunity, there are Americans turning against it while using it for self destruction. I feel horrible for the generations inheriting our chaos and possible destruction.

"I don't want to vote for the party giving free weapons to a genocidal dictator."

"Oh, so you're literally a fascist?"

🤡

Posters like this always assume that their candidate is the other option if the person doesn't abstain or vote 3rd party.

I'm not in a swing state, I voted for a third party for the presidential race this election, just sent in my ballot last week. I don't care about your opinion and you're powerless to affect people like me.

Cry about it

Just think, all Harris has to do is condemn the genocide in Palestine and 3rd party voters would vote for her.

This violates rule one doesn't it? "Shaming people for voting"

This has real "We'll write the address of people with Kamala Harris signs in their front yard" energy.

The two-party system is perfect. George Washington and John Adams had it wrong when they claimed a two-party system would be an evil. No policies of third parties have ever been adopted by either of the two big parties. No political candidate would ever dare switch between and third party and that of one of the big two, sometimes multiple times over their career. Useless. Certainly the political spectrum is sufficiently represented as a two-dimensional line depicting left, center, and right? Issues such as monetary policy, interventionalist policies, border security, personal liberty, states' rights, federal powers, and debate of democracy vs. republic have already been solved and merits no further discussion. All 335 million Americans' ideologies fit perfectly into either of the two big parties' platform and always have. No other party besides Democratic and Republican have ever dominated US politics. Political parties are so paramount to the existence of America that the founding fathers went through great lengths to outline their implementation in the Constitution.

Eh, it's not like USA presidential election is based on a majority vote anyway. Electoral college and all that shit

Mods removing comments for being uncivil, yet letting this post stand.

Mods: fuck you.

Looks like blue MAGA is masking off agaaaaiiinnnnn blink

People need to be sharing this video about first past the post more, because if you haven't heard this very specific voting information then any intelligent person would think this was just stupid tribalism:

https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

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I sure wish more of these people that are all hung up on an issue would vote in the primaries. You know, where you have at least a slim chance of changing things.

Not understanding the concept of the Secret Ballot and it's consequences

This is just not true voting third party or not voting means you are voting third party or not voting. This reasoning is senseless so if I vote Lu Cruz I'm helping Trump, Harris, Stein, etc.. all win no I'm not. No reason to vote for a candidate who will run fascistic policies which Trump and Harris both will. Electoralism is a dead end in broken system built to maintain the status quo.

If you vote democrat no matter what they do (and voting in spite of the current regime committing a genocide communicates that you will do exactly that), they have no incentive to take your interests at heart, and will move in the direction of the interests of the highest bidder. And this is an observable effect: fairly consistently throughout the years (and this goes back to at least Clinton), the policies and positions of the dems are exactly those of the republicans four years ago, aside from some meaningless posturing and vibes. Look at where we are with the border wall for example, or the children in cages at the border (more now than under Trump), or abortion (FOUR years of a dem president, and nothing has been done, despite promises).

You vote blue no matter who people are flushing your democracy down the drain. For the love of god, make your vote count and vote for something for a change. Vote Jill Stein or Cornell West. Or if you like murdering tens of thousands of innocent children (as we've done under the Biden regime), vote Kamala "most lethal fighting force in the world" Harris. If you're lucky, you might be paying for the murder of Iranian children next.

To convince Greens or Carlins (people who don't vote because the Democrats are still too evil from their point-of-view) to vote for Democrats, you need to understand yourself and them. Once you do that, you'll be able to offer more convincing arguments to support your position.

If you're voting for Democrats, you possibly agree with the following scale of evilness:

• 10 Hitler
• 9 Stalin
• 8.5 Trump
• 8 Republicans and people who vote for them
• 7
• 6
• ~5-3 elected Democratic party members
• 2
• 1 you
• 0 Jesus

The thing is that Greens and Carlins see the world very differently:

• 10 people making the biosphere unlivable thru overpopulation
• 9 factory farmers and commercial fishing companies
• 8
• 7 Hitler, Stalin
• 6
• 5 George W. Bush, Putin
• 4 Trump, Republicans, and people who vote for them
• 3 Gore, Obama, Democrats, and people who vote for them
• 2
• 1 Sanders
• 0
• -1
• -2
• -3
• -4
• -5
• -6
• -7 them
• -8
• -9
• -10

The Greens' and Carlins' priorities are very different. They may think that choosing to make the biosphere unlivable is the worst thing you can do, because without a biosphere that supports life, nothing else matters.

They may think that torturing trillions of fish to death every year, and enslaving hundreds of billions of animals in torturous conditions every year, is worse than all genocides and wars in all of history combined. They think that supporting even a single genocide is bad.

They may think that given the choice between popular Hitler, popular Stalin, and unpopular Gandhi; they'd rather vote for Gandhi than the popular lesser evil, because that specific evil is omnicidally evil. It's better to vote for good and fail, than it is to vote for evil and succeed.

Neither decision will save medicare, social security, education or the middle class.

Harris will do what she can, same as Biden has, but neither has any effect on disinformation, bigotry, division or inequality beyond shaking their fingers in disapproval, if it even is disapproval and not just saving face for us.

Trump and his kind are a virus. I'm not saying there is no solution, but the current methods our society governs by aren't doing a solid job of dealing with it, to a point that they may even be making it worse by being too cowardly to put a foot down. They won't save America. They're as much a part of the corruption as the corruption. They'll only go as far as to protect themselves.

I don't make these predictions with any sort of supernatural foresight. It's what Biden and Obama did, it's what Harris will do, keep the seat warm until it's red again while the planet dies, respective kings and queens of the ashes.

First of all, you might as well one would be helping Harris by not voting for Trump lmao. Why would not voting for either help one of them?

Also, while I would have her win if I had to choose between the two, I don't like her at all and wouldn't bother voting if I lived in the USA. The impact of a single vote is so small, even in a swing state, and the chances of one's vote being the decisive one as well, that I really wouldn't place much importance on whether I vote.

Of course upholding a system of social incentives for voting by shaming those that don't vote for your favourite candidate might make sense, I think it also promotes a very toxic political climate.

If what it takes for bastards like you to actually get the balls to approach me in the real world. I'll dawn a maga hat despite hating the fart bag. Bring it pussy. You're a traitor to the republic and I won't stop until your kind is no longer a threat. 2 years into your lame duck drug war baron, I'll still be calling weaklings like you the garbage problem with this country that you are. I hope you hate being alone. You're in for a lot of it. Garbage bastard.

Genuinely, why is everyone on lemmy a democrat? I'm actually tired of seeing these things come across my feed

Nah I'm boycotting this election as we skipped having any sort of primary. Democrats need to learn. I'm getting tired of thinking voting blue no matter who makes long term changes. It's been a long time coming since Bernie was cheated

Also I wasn't a fan with how Marianne was treated after Biden dropped out

When you shit inside the skulls of your enemies, but they use that shit to form shitty opinions about life and politics :(

Don't worry. I'm going to start rounding up the non-voters.

I'd really fucking like to see what you would do about it. I'll be voting third party, and you can kiss my ass.

not trying to start anything. Not even American. But I think Donald trump will win this one. Just because there's so many crazy trump people. I love the people here at lemmy but this is the only place I see people talking shit on trump. Almost everywhere else I go it's crazy trumpers and they are all avid voters. I hope Harris wins for the good of humanity but I just don't think it's gonna happen unless a bunch of young people actually go out and vote. It's the south park turd Sandwhich giant douche thing all over again anyway. We're fucked.

"only republicans do bad things"

I'm so frickin enraged rn, I can't fucking handle it. The whole Lemmy is advocating voting Dems while knowing that they will commit a ton of warcrimes. While on the opposite side, russians who voted against Putin, tried different strategies and failed, treated as subhumans and the people that commit warcrimes. Fucking hate y'all

If you vote for Republicans or Democrats, you're supporting the same duopoly that got us to this point. If you're terrified of Project 2025, keep in mind the Republicans will eventually win again, even if not this election.

If you're not in a battleground state, the easiest longterm solution is to vote 3rd party. This is the tactical decision to gather support and break the duopoly, without increasing Republican win chance since your vote won't affect the election

Ok fascist blue MAGA 👍

If you’re feeling disturbed by this rhetoric but you don’t want to vote for the greens, consider party for socialism and liberation. They’re running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.

To convince Greens or Carlins (people who don't vote because the Democrats are still too evil from their point-of-view) to vote for Democrats, you need to understand yourself and them. Once you do that, you'll be able to offer more convincing arguments to support your position.

If you're voting for Democrats, you possibly agree with the following scale of evilness:

• 10 Hitler
• 9 Stalin
• 8.5 Trump
• 8 Republicans and people who vote for them
• 7
• 6
• ~5-3 elected Democratic party members
• 2
• 1 you
• 0 Jesus

The thing is that Greens and Carlins see the world very differently:

• 10 people making the biosphere unlivable thru overpopulation
• 9 factory farmers and commercial fishing companies
• 8
• 7 Hitler, Stalin
• 6
• 5 George W. Bush, Putin
• 4 Trump, Republicans, and people who vote for them
• 3 Gore, Obama, Democrats, and people who vote for them
• 2
• 1 Sanders
• 0
• -1
• -2
• -3
• -4
• -5
• -6
• -7 them
• -8
• -9
• -10

The Greens' and Carlins' priorities are very different. They may think that choosing to make the biosphere unlivable is the worst thing you can do, because without a biosphere that supports life, nothing else matters.

They may think that torturing trillions of fish to death every year, and enslaving hundreds of billions of of animals in torturous conditions every year, is worse than all genocides and wars in all of history combined. They think that supporting even a single genocide is bad.

They may think that given the choice between popular Hitler, popular Stalin, and unpopular Gandhi; they'd rather vote for Gandhi than the popular lesser evil, because that specific evil is omnicidally evil. It's better to vote for good and fail, than it is to vote for evil and succeed.

Permanently Deleted

I'm getting real tired of all the posts full of people not able to imagine any other system than the current one that funnily enough only the US still clings to

You guys really treat politics like sports teams.

Get out there and vote third party all the way through. Force another party into the reckoning because voting democrat or republican is still eventually going to fuck you all over, it just varies the pace depending which one you chose.

Doesn't working class cover women and minorities?

Or does Beyonce suffer with the rest of us?

It really is as simple as that. We’re voting to retain the right to vote in the next election.

voting for a third party is fine.

I personally think it's impractical since the democrats have advanced progressive policies these past 4 years that probably dovetail with any third party candidate a voter likes, but any vote an American voter casts is a valid vote.