Split keyboard with double middle keys?
I think having a split keyboard so my mouse can be in the middle would really help my comfort at the desk. Is there a style that doubles up the middle keys? My typing style means sometimes I use my right hand to hit T, left to hit Y, etc.
Is this a style already, or would I need to build my own?
I am completely new to this domain and would appreciate advice from knowledgeable enthusiasts.
Such a simple design change but honestly it's a genius move.
I think going custom is your best option. Keyboard enthusiasts often adhere to their "perfect" touch typing methods, and thus there is often no demand for split boards with these duplicate keys, which is a shame.
I appreciate you not criticizing my wondering. Thank you.
Does it matter that one person in the world wants something that's not normal? Very unwelcoming. I have to be perfect the moment I present myself or I am wrong. Disappointing. (Not you)
Well most consumer goods always target bigger demographics for higher or safer profit. There simply isnt a market big enough for these niche cases so custom would be the only way unless someone takes a risk and try these out.
I want it, but I'm just using the ms ergo which has a bit of a gap, but not as much as a full split.
No feedback about the doubled middle keys, but mouse in the center of your desk? Do you have a third, middle arm? I don't see that being ergonomic at all.
I use my mouse in the middle and it's much more comfortable. My keyboard halves are quite far apart-- more than most split keyboard users-- and as the other poster suggested, I do a significant amount of my work with keyboard only.
It feels much shorter and my arm feels much more supported when I move my right hand inward to the mouse instead of flaring my elbow outward. In general, elbow tucked is a more ergonomic and stable position, even in e.g. a bench press, and so it's less fatiguing. Less fatigue means more time without hunching.
That's my experience, anyway. Different bodies and different setups might end up optimizing differently.
Mouse in the middle is more ergonomic if you spend more time typing than moving your mouse, e.g. heavy CLI users or people who type documents all day.
so what you're saying is... moving your arm outwards to use the mouse is more ergonomic than moving it inwards? 🤔
Yes? Inward shoulder rotation is a big factor in rounded shoulder/"computer guy" hunch.
Absolutely. Since your arms aren’t along your body’s symmetrical plane but are offset.
And moving your arm to the center of that requires pushing against your torso/chest.
I’m getting exhausted just thinking about it
I’m a “touchpad in the middle” guy myself. Love it.
I'd argue that it's not ergonomic but it saves on desk space. Could work well with a split keyboard and a trackball on a small desk.
Maybe it turns out not to be better. I wont know untili try.
Observing the way i use my desk. I have to twist to the left to use my keyboard. My right shohlder is on fire. I need something better.
Wait... Left...Right....
...wtf do you use to control your mouse that makes the middle comfortable? lmao
Uses his dick like a joystick
two Eternal Keypads – build one as right, one as left – install VIA firmware and remap
(in between the two halves, people more often choose a trackpad or trackball, usually not enough room for full mouse movement)
EDIT: for split keyboards, you’re basically looking for each half having 7 columns (6 and 5 columns are far more common)
You’ll have to get it custom made. You can learn to do it yourself, design and get it fabricated. Or see if you can pay someone to for it.
I find it funny that most of the responses are variations of you needing to conform to existing designs. We make tools to conform to us, not the other way around.
That's the whole point of these custom things, right?
You can do that on a zsa moondlander and assign those key to be whatever you want.
Edit: except for the B/N. But someone that has bad typing technique and crossover and switching to columnar, my muscle memory only does thaty with T/Y and G/H. Not a problem for the bottom row.
Was going to comment the same thing - you could even grab some extra keycaps to label em properly
I use a ZSA Moonlander which I programmed to have 2 Ys and 2 Vs so the left and right work like how you're looking for.
It sped up my adoption of using a columnar keyboard. I'm sure some will say I gotta fix my typing, but I definitely have sped up my typing with a split keyboard, even with this quirk.
Different (key)strokes for different folks!
Thank you for speaking :)
I've had some fun about thinking how much overlap you need. And while playing with the thought to maximize it, I came to the conclusion that you can just have two keyboards, for each hand one.
Haha that's a fun idea. Poor desk space, but i could look like a TV hacker 🤘
I had a similar set of typing habits when I started and found that the bfo9000 suited my needs, may be worth a try for you.
It is ortholinear, rather that the row staggered layout you requested, but does allow the "overreaching" typing style.
https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full-size-split-ortholinear
You can also break of sections of the pcb. So you can have a smaller board than what is pictured. That is the 'customizizable' part of description.
I fully recommend the ortho layout over staggered, but going from a one piece 5x12 (olkb preonic) to split with two 5x6s (keebio nyquist) I notice that separating my wrists make my thumbs lower on the keyboard. so I think an iris (keebio) would have been better for me.
I had to replace my preonic in a hurry. The nyquist allowed me to get up and running fast because of how close it feels to the preonic.
Not really something that I'm aware of; you would probably need to build one custom yourself if you wanted that. But I don't think that would be worth the effort. If you get a split keyboard, it's pretty easy to train yourself to use it the "correct" way, hitting T with left and Y with right.
EDIT: Or if you go with a pre-built PCB, you could build a keyboard with a non-standard ortholinear layout like this one, but you'd have to re-learn how to type on that anyway....so just going with a standard split layout is the easiest option.
Yeah, it isnt worth the effort or cost at all for somwthing I can un/re-learn. I want to keep it close to standard keyboards since I have to use them often away from my pc. And starting in a new domain by going custom and conplicated is not dipping your toes in.
I'm actually pretty partial to ortholinear after switching to it, for the record. It's easier to reach every key and it wasn't that hard to learn. It also didn't break my brain and force me to "un-learn" a standard QWERTY layout, I can switch between my split ortho keyboard and crappy laptop keyboard on the fly.
I built my own Redox but there are plenty of kits you can get that come partially or totally pre-assembled (that keeb.io website is a good place to start, and there are a bunch of builders on Etsy). I'm trying out putting my trackball between the two split sides right now and it's not bad; I just have to angle the trackball so that it keeps my wrist straight.
If you didn't want to make one custom, you could get a programmable keyboard like a ZSA Moonlander and then use a layer to have the three extra keys on the inside be the extra keys you want.
Just buying a split (doesnt even have to be ergo) will fix your problems. I have a charybdis from bastardkb and all my typing flaws were instantly revealed. It honestly took me about a month to get used to it, considering I type on a lot of keyboards and mine is the only split ergo in the office.
As a fellow left-handed split keyboard enthusiast, do what you want. The Ergodash is probably about as close as you're going to get to what you're looking for.
Yeah the Ortho layout is a bit different and you won't get your number overlaps, but it could allow you to do what you are looking for and then change it in the future if you decide you'd rather have other keys there instead of letters.
Also as a person who's job entails typing all damn day, the change in layout has removed a significant amount of hand fatigue I used to get from regular staggered boards.
I just learned to hold my hands more ergonomically on a non-ergonomic keyboard. I hold my hands at an angle rather than perpendicular to the keys.
Thank you for the discussion. I am welcomed by the few members who took my request as an idea, a concept. Talking about the pros and cons with no condescension was helpful.
The sadly larger portion of replies were picking me apart with noses upturned.
I wanted to delve into this cool little niche thing, and the people who are knowledgeable were also strict gatekeepers of their opinions and let me know that I was so wrong.
A few were kind, but overall, ... pretty jerky.
You like your hobby.... you don't like people new to it?
This is good feedback for the community. Thank you.
the solution is to change your typing style and then buy a Dygma Defy
Cool. People told me. I know. Thank you.
I resisted changing my typing because who wants to change what is working? And now a whole group of people are taking that so badly.
Jeez. Have you (the ones applicable) never resisted a suggestion?
⬆️Gotta fix this proble⬆️
I will try a basic split keyboard and lose some precious time by using the--oof--"proper" hand for those letters :)
Fix your typing not the keyboard.
"Fix". As if there's one "correct" way.
There i more than one correct way, but there are also bad habits.
"Fix your left-handedness, not the guitar/scissors/every right-handed object in existence"
You can buy a left handed guitar or scissors. Your keyboard uses both hands and tries to spread the load between both as best it can. What you’re asking is to duplicate keys. Not the same thing. Keeping your fingers in their own columns will help your typing. It’s harder at first. I had a hell of a time with CV keys at first but it got better and it helped me on standard keyboards as well.
Not that I am aware of. However, one thing I learned is that moving to a split keyboard fixes bad typing behavior like tapping T or Y with the wrong hand very quickly.
That's my experience, too. When I switched to split, I noticed a few quirks in my typing habits. They cleared up quickly with just a little bit of thoughtful practice.
Cool. Maybe all I need is to jump in and it won't end up an issue I notice. I dont understand the hostility at this quirk from some people. Not everyone is an expert, and being snubby of newbies is very unwelcoming.(not you)
I think the "bad" typing behavior for those stretches has a bit to do with PC gaming. In the old days of CS and other games before voip, T was all chat and Y was team chat. So my left hand was used to migrating to that specific key very quickly to open a prompt as my mouse hand transitioned over to the keyboard. As a gamer on a split keyboard, it's usually fine, but sometimes I wish my left half had an extra column of keys.
Indeed, OP should just switch and quickly learn more ergonomic typing.
This is like asking the internet if they have a diet that can accomodate a lot of sugary drinks.
Just, no.
Accessibility. Most people can use things as they are. A limited amount of people need accommodations.
Your analogy is extreme. It is more like asking for a diet that can accomodate my desire to keep eating a cookie once a week.
I love the extra B on my Alice but when using Corne I keep wanting to press B with my right hand, which I shouldn’t 😂
Aw, why call it bad behavior? It's faster to type T with the
leftright hand when its ready to go and therightleft hand is all the way down where I just hit C. I save a whole microsecond :DMaybe it's not official typing rules, but it isn't bad. Different :)
It is a habit i could unlearn though.
Edit: left vs right omg
Some people use a different hand for T depending on whether they also need to hold shift or control. It's not wrong to want redundant keys. I like the idea of having some overlap in on the halves. (not that I plan to implement it)
The time saved is irrelevant when compared to the extra strain you put in your body. It seems small but the less you move out of an ergonomic position the better. Stretching your fingers sideways, moving your wrist, etc all add up when you do them hundreds of times a day.
Because RSIs are life changing and you should change your behavior rather than making it more convenient to harm yourself. Assuming you’re getting a split for the ergonomic benefits, adding an unergonomic feature is extremely illogical.
You can do whatever you want obviously, and a lot of the other commenters are doing a terrible job of explaining any sort of reasoning, but the advice is sound. Several members of my family have had fairly severe RSIs, my mother and my sister-in-law have had to have surgery to regain function in their hands due to carpal tunnel syndrome. I have some constant low-level pain due to similar bad habits when I was young.
I got some training and corrected my workstation and behavior as much as I could to limit the damage, but what’s done is done. If you learn from the mistakes of others, you can avoid those consequences.