pics @lemmy.world

3w ago

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) waiting outside unmarked van

377 comments

Wait, that's how they're actually dressed? They just look like random people. The fact that they don't get shot more speaks a lot about how well behaved the people they are kidnapping are.
- I think they look more like a bunch of thugs than normal people.
  
  It’s the masks. Their body language is softer than my hangover shit.
  
  Those are thugs, who were under qualified for mafia or even any respectable gang so they applied for the government job.
- They're also going after the population that are probably the unlikeliest to own firearms. That being said, if you're brown and not carrying a firearm and your "papers", you should probably change your habits. Fuck me, it's disgusting that this is the case in America.
- They'd blend in a lot better if they didn't look like old western bandits about to rob a train with those masks.
  Cowards. All of them. I hope they all get doxxed.
  
  https://icelist.info/
  Got this from another lemmy user.
- Suede denim secret police.
  Jello called it, decades ago.
- They don't get shot because guns are for mass-shootings.
  Haven't read a single story where a gun was used against the tyrannical government / cops.
  Mostly because you can't "self-defence" agaist the police in the US. You will always be shot to death on the spot.

They wear masks for the same reason the Klansmen wore masks.
- Aren't they klansmen or their sons?
  
  I’m sure more than a few of them have that in their history, along with numerous times starting a sentence with, “I’m not racist but…”
- Some of those that work forces
  \ Are the same that burn crosses
  
  I always thought "some" was being too charitable.

There is absolutely no proof that these people are ICE, or any other agents of the state. Do not assume masked strangers throwing people in vehicles are law enforcement. Especially if they don't identify themselves.
We all need to stop making this assumption, and to start encouraging others to also not make this assumption.
- My favorite so far is the people who follow these fuckers around with megaphones and broadcast the rights people have when dealing with ICE, numbers of local lawyers and advocates, and other instructions to help people either avoid the interaction or at least have a fighting chance to due process if they are detained.
  
  What would be better is if, when people were being kidnapped by these brownshirts-at-home, the bystanders started beating these kidnappers to a bloody, gelatinous pulp. That way, the street sweepers could come and gently push their mouldering viscera where they belong: the gutter.
  Remember: there is no evidence that these people have the force of law behind them. Citizens should not allow others to be kidnapped in broad daylight.
  
  Absolutely. They should be afraid to get out of their van. They should be treated as if they are wearing a Nazi uniform.
- I get what you mean. But, materially, there is not much of a difference. You should absolutely do everything in your power to stop or resist them.
  They are Nazis with a badge or Nazis without a badge. That badge doesn't change what should be done to them by anyone that sees them. They should not feel safe getting out of their van. There are more of us. Get organized and be ready to be that 2nd or 3rd or 4th random stranger that is brave enough to standup to them.
  Nazi's aren't brave. They are wimpy little losers. That's why they are Nazis. Don't let them feel safe anywhere they go.
- are you implying anyone was making this assumption? any group of thugs could pretend to be ICE this way
  
  The OP seems to be
- The problem is, it's plausible they are ice, and in the US hoodlums gathering near a van before pulling a heist are rarer than unmarked ICE guys waiting to acquire a target, so if this isn't a movie set, they're most likely ICE.

No badges, no uniforms, driving unmarked vehicles and wearing masks? Those are obviously kidnappers, Your Honor.
- "That's why my client acted reasonably and dare I say heroically, when they saw these masked men dragging the witness into an unmarked vehicle, drew their legally carried sidearm, and engaged these individuals until they were no longer a threat."
  Why hasn't this happened yet?!
  This country should never be safe for predators who want to throw people into vans.
  
  Because migrants are generally peaceful, non-violent people who just want to work hard and improve their lives.
  
  Because the people who wear firearms are the ones who are okay with what's happening.
- were obviously kidnappers, your honor, is what my client meant to say.

A handy guide to America:
Wearing a mask to prevent the spread of infection during a global pandemic? It's an excuse to hide your face, you literally cannot breate through it, and it's a symbol of leftist fascism.
Wearing a mask literally to hide your identity so you can physically accost and abduct anyone under the pretense of 'immigration authority' with zero need for due process so there are no repercussions when you are wrong? That's protecting your country.
- i am willing to bet that before the year is over, there will be people who cut mouth holes out of these types of masks to make it clear that they aren't wearing masks for public health reasons

Looks like a group of shady men wearing masks intended to hide their faces around an unmarked van threatening civilians with weapons to me. Call the police, maybe hyperbolize it a bit. Make them either abandon their spot or waste their time justifying their existence to the police instead of whatever bullshit they're there to do.
- Looks like a bunch of fascists committing state-sanctioned domestic terrorism.
  
  This is the correct answer.
- Are you sure it's not a group of protestors? Because then covering your face is illegal in some places now. Better call the cops to get those protestors back to the free speech zone.
  BUT THIS IS STILL A TOTALLY NORMAL AND FINE DEMOCRACY, RIGHT CONSERVATIVES?

that’s actually a mob of criminals. you see these dbags you need to call 911, especially if you are not an immigrant.
- Call in a potential bank robbery
- Looks like a violent riot to me.
- The reality is they are consistently informing local police that they are "conducting business in the area" and are plain clothes.
  
  for sure. make no mistake - the point of the call is not to get police help it’s to be a pain in the ass. It’s “agitprop”

Not even remotely hyperbolic here, I 100% would assume they’re randos gang members or doing criminality attempting to kidnap then murder me, and I’d fight back accordingly. Not even a badge on a neck chain or belt clip jfc covered head to toe
Just the same as if a mugging becomes “get into the van” no you fucking shouldn’t because their goals are now no longer your property, but now your life
- Never let the assailant take you to the secondary location.
  Urban self defense classes have been teaching this since the 1970s, at least.
  
  The secondary location these days is in El Salvador.
- This is what random crimes taking place look like in Spiderman

They look like terrorists.
- Well they are wearing masks and striking fear on a civilian population for a political agenda, so I think your terminology is textbook.
  
  Nah, they haven't shot any rich people yet.
- they are terrorists
- Fox News would probably agree with you if they weren’t white

Given what is currently happening in the US, I cannot help but ask myself: Does the police still respond when emergency calls come in reporting that several armed and masked men are dragging people into a van and kidnapping them?
That's a genuine question, and I don't know the answer. But hey, I don't know the answer to the question of how all this can be possible in a constitutional state either.
- Turns out having a constitution isn't enough. You have to actually follow and enforce it to be effective.
  
  Trump would wipe his ass with that piece of paper if he could get his hands on it.
  
  Hungary's hate speech laws are also now ineffective, for similar reasons.
- In this situation, it can't be just one person. Several people need to call 911 with plate numbers and general descriptions.
  "A bunch of people in masks waiting outside the court house. I think they have guns!"
  If ICE has done their due diligence, they would have notified law enforcement that they are there in plain clothes. But methinks that these cosplayers wouldn't think to do that.
  
  If you really want to be an inconvenience, DON'T give them the plate numbers. Those will almost certainly come back to some entity or person that will clue the dispatchers in on them being government owned.
- Where are the swatting trolls when they could actually be useful?
  
  Standing next to a windowless van in nondescript clothes and a mask.

This looks like they just rounded up a bunch of proud boyz, put masks on them, gave them a van and told them to go harass immigrant children.
- I mean... That's pretty much what they did.
- “Looks like”
  
  Because it is the thing.
- Do you work in ICE Human Resources? How do you know their recruiting process so well? Trump is going to get mad that you divulged his secret super stable genius hiring process.
- Just like the SA once was, over here.
  
  They showed their faces
- I mean it really does look that way.....is there something about being a fascist that just fucks up your posture? All these guys and the tiki torch bros always end up having the same posture as those three little aliens from MIB.
  I wonder if it's that the only thing that can lure them from constantly shit posting on 4chan is the opportunity to engage in state sanctioned hate crimes?
  
  yea their posture was indeed what made me think that way initially

Looks like four domestic terrorists.
- That's because they are.

How does anyone know they're ICE? what if six guys in masks showed up and threw these guys in an unmarked van and says THEY'RE ICE?
- You're right. And if you feel threatened, you could just shoot them. "Had no idea they were cops. They hid their faces like gang members."
  
  Someone put "MS 13" in power point text boxes on their shirts already.
  
  If they were just bounty hunters, with no ID or uniforms, and somebody stopped them, I doubt any judge would allow a case to go forward. There is no law that says citizens have to cooperate with violent, unidentified strangers.
- They aren't ICE. There's not enough ICE agents for the job. At BEST, they are bounty hunters deputized by ICE and given $1k for each brown person they bring in.
- Worth a shot.
  
  Or four.

No reasononable person would believe these are police. Not guilty.

*Allegedly ICE
Those could totally just be plain old kidnappers
- Yeah, that's what "ICE" is.

These guys look like they're about to rob a bank.
- Nah, I imagine bank robbers as classy. These thugs look like the "gang members" they're so desperately scared of. They look like they're hiding weapons in their pockets to cause public terror. They look like they're about to jump me for being in their territory and mug me of all my belongings. They make me feel like I should avoid walking down whatever street they're holding up.
  These are straight up criminals, looking like they're about to commit crime.
  
  Those masks and them carrying weapons is an automatic felony in my jurisdiction and any shop owner pleading stand your ground would be praised by the community. They don’t like immigrants here, but they hate the federal government even more.
  
  You seem to be thinking of 1930s bank robbers like John Dillinger. I was thinking more along the lines of 1990s bank robbers, like the North Hollywood Shootout guys.
- Its sad really. They think this makes them good Americans, and probably satisfies their personal insecurities. You can tell by their stance they feel pretty powerful, but they look like clowns, and hiding their face makes it pretty empty, like kids playing sheriff.

Anybody else dressed like that in the street would be arrested.
- And.. Are these the guys kidnapping children at primary schools and playgrounds? Cuz they do wear the right clothes for such occasion.
  
  The answer is, yes. Multiple times they’ve gone to schools and attempted to remove children.
- Any non-white person would just get shot if they dressed like that.

Pretty sure those are just traffickers.
- Legal Modern Mafia.

Omg, they can't breathe, they are inhaling their own CO2 & toxic bacteria, they are probably dead already!!
- Brain dead? Dead inside? Soulless? Checks out.
- Good

It's 2025. America. You see these men on the street.
If you assume they are going to rob a bank dial 911.
If you assume they are going to lynch someone dial 911.
If you assume they are going to kidnap someone dial 911.
If you assume they are law enforcement then get your eyes checked. They aren't wearing any identifying uniform, no insignia, no badges.
If you assume they are impersonating law enforcement then dial 911 and get your eyes checked.
- Definitely don’t call 911. That just gives them more backup. They look like terrorists in the streets. It’s actually illegal here to wear a mask over your face while demonstrating or armed so they are under stand your ground territory
  
  If someone wearing a balaclava and civilian clothes grabs you, I'm pretty sure it's reasonable to stab them.
  
  Easy there, boss. That depends heavily on what state you're in. And the ones that have "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" are usually the ones where local police are openly coordinating with ICE.
  
  If you stand your ground you still go to jail. Even if you are released you still got more inconvenienced than them.
  As a white person I'm at minimal risk from them. But in order to stand your ground for another person they must have a legal right to be where they are. And if they are, in fact, not legally here, then bad things happen to you.

Has anyone actually confirmed that those guys are actually ICE? Because they look like I could pretend to be ICE and get away with it.

Photoshop some darker skin on them and post them on some conservative site and see the difference in reactions.

Send this to your MAGA relatives with the caption "these guys good or bad?" and no additional context.
- Seem to be all white, obviously good

If these unidentifiable people tried to arrest you would you not be within your right to defend yourself with force?
Could you also not get a bunch of mates dress the same and disrupt all of their raids by claiming you’re the real ICE and they are just a group of random strangers
- If the law actually applied equally to everyone, both citizens and government thugs? Absolutely.
  But we all know that's not how it works on the street or in the courts.
  
  The first time, yeah, I get you. If it happened a lot, though. They’d change their MO. Maybe wear some stylish Hugo Boss designed uniforms.

Friendly reminder that it should be 100% illegal for law enforcement to wear masks and hide their identity.
We pay their salaries and they have ZERO accountability.
These are domestic terrorists.

They look like random Grand Theft Auto enemies that you wipe out by the dozen.

These are criminals. There's nothing to indicate that they are any type of law enforcement.
- they are terrorists, any common sense judicial system would consider it legal to shoot them in self defense
- Reminds me of the SS in many ways
- I don't know how self defense laws function over there. But surely if someone dressed like that approaches you, you are free to shoot them/defend yourself right? Surely wearing a balaclava shows bad intentions accordingly to the law?

Just being honest. If someone in mask comes to my car, I'm pulling away. If you are caught by a wheel, then it's on you. Identify who you are.
- They wouldn't hide their face if what they were doing wasn't shameful
- https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-says-floridians-have-right-hit-protesters-cars-2084418
  
  Not in florida but I will hit you if you run up on me. I assume it is a car jacking.

Yea these guys don't look like law enforcement. They gonna get shot if its my turn cause these look like bad guys just kidnapping fools.

They know what they’re doing is wrong. And outside the law
They know if they are identified they will be dealt with. Outside the law.

Fucking fascists

It would be a real shame if people started dousing these fascist fucks with bright red hair dye so that they can be identified after they remove their fucking fash masks.
- There are some pepper sprays that are mixed with red difficult-to-remove dye for the purpose of identifying those involved in an incident.
  Legal in California!
  
  Oo gimme link. I want
- https://www.psproducts.com/products/blue-heat-pepper-spray-1
  or use this
- Or something more flammable, perhaps
- Glitter.
  
  Their wives would be so mad!
  "Glitter!? Again? How many times have I told you I to stay out of that strip joint? I hope you like the couch, that's where you'll be sleeping for a while!"

Flannel is the new brownshirt.
- fun fact, flannel catches fire like nothing else
  
  Flannel is wool and cotton, so… like pretty much most other textiles.
  
  Really? So why do they give them to every worker?
- Please no. I like my flannel.
  
  If ICE does to flannel what Hitler did to his mustache, I'm going to be livid.
  
  There goes my entire winter wear.

They don't look like law enforcement, you should probably open fire if they try and get onto your property.

Masked, no badge. That's a good way to get yourself shot.
- Hopefully.

If these people approached me I would shoot.

That's a lynching posse, and not a gathering of law enforcement officers.
- "Lawn enforcement officer" sounds like an analog for "assistant (to the) manager" in an Office clone about an HOA.
- That's exactly what this is, a new form of lynching. In a way, it's even worse than lynching. They may not be hanging them from a tree, but they are destroying the lives of entire families.

I am curious to see how many incidentscome out where there are of ACTUAL kidnappings that happen because some geniuses get the idea to just go grab some people and throw them in a van while dressing up like these ICE idiots.
You want to give gangs a free pass to grab random people or rivals off the street? Make your "official govt activity" look like gang activity.
- It may already be happening in immigrant communities. What are their families going to do - report it to the cops?
- Perfect way to enable fascist militias to conduct a purge.
- Literally just last week in Philadelphia, guy tried to kidnap a woman and rob the business she worked at.
  And then there is all these ones.
  We have absolutely set it up so criminals and bastards have a template to follow to hurt others as they want. No rules anymore in America unless it's about rising up against the lack of rules.

They are terrorists.

how does no one shoot them
- ironically, a proper self defence reaction to a gang of masked armed thugs who try to kidnap minorities.
- All the American "patriots" who spent their whole lives loudly insisting they'd do anything for their country ended up being cowardly garbage.
  "Wait, you mean I'd have to put myself at RISK? That’s not easy, it’s actually really hard! Never mind that I’ve built my whole cultural identity on doing great things against great odds- how dare you suggest I do something hard? You’re a keyboard warrior!”

No badges, no name tags, no exposed faces… let’s see “ ICE “ try this in a state with strong self defense laws.
- They are literally going around like this in every state and have detained at 51,000 people publicly on the record.
  See them Try? They already Do.
  Don't believe what you want that they just haven't been to the right place to get stopped.
- Don't forget, the State decides if it's self-defense or not, and Self-Defense states tend to be Red. Florida has some of the "strongest" Self-Defense laws, and the State would side with these goons every time.
  
  While that doesn’t surprise me, I don’t think I’ve heard/seen/read about “ICE” getting guns drawn on by people they try to kidnap.
  I carry, with a permit, and I regularly practice & train. I don’t wake up bloodthirsty but if masked dudes approach me and I don’t see badges/names/police ID, you bet I’m drawing on them, and if they attempt to lay hands on me I’m firing. I will most likely be persecuted and found guilty but I’ll at least say I did something on record against the gestapo and maybe set a precedent?

Cowards. Fucking cowardly bullies with their truncheons.
And if the dude on the right wouldn't go down and stay down with one shove to the chest, I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.
- Yeah, I'm looking at these guys in their loose flannel, and thinking I got all sorts of stuff to grab onto and throw these skinny little punks around. I could slam that guy on the right against his car at least three times before he even realizes he's getting the shit kicked out of him. Losers.
  
  Blue Jeans and Gray Hoodie at least have seen the bottom side of a barbell...

I'm pretty sure, in some states, You can shoot people looking like that.
- I actually just looked it up. In certain states, this falls under the "Stand Your Ground" law.
  Defense of Others: State law permits the use of force, including deadly force, to defend another person. Non-deadly force is justified when a person reasonably believes it is necessary to protect someone from imminent unlawful force. Deadly force is justified to prevent imminent death, great bodily harm, or a "forcible felony" to the other person. Examples of forcible felonies include murder, robbery, and aggravated assault.
  Immunity from Prosecution: A key feature of the Stand Your Ground law is potential immunity from criminal prosecution and civil lawsuits if the use of force is found to be legally justified. A defendant can request a pretrial hearing to determine if their actions were justified, potentially leading to dismissal of the case. The prosecution must provide clear and convincing evidence that the force was not justified.
  Important Considerations: The force used must be proportional to the threat. Stand Your Ground does not apply if the person was engaged in unlawful activity or provoked the attack. Immunity also generally does not apply when using force against a law enforcement officer performing their duties.
  Meaning if you see a bunch of masked men trying to abduct someone and they aren't identifying themselves as law enforcement, you can legally shoot them to defend the person being assaulted. You would also be immune from criminal prosecution for doing so.
  You'd better be a great shot though. And you'd probably get killed. At minimum for sure you're getting arrested (and probably disappeared). But you are legally in the clear. And the news would be ALL over it. I'd like the TACO administration compete against Republican-state laws.
- If you're serious, you're wrong. But most people won't stop you.

Call swat on them.
"Hello police? There are armed masked men waiting next to a black unmarked van eyeballing women as they walk by. I'm afraid when I leave they are going to try to abduct someone.
No they aren't law enforcement"
If they don't get guns pointed at them then you will make 4 thugs waste most of their day and piss them off.

Take the mask off “patriot”

4chan summer camp

Pathetic. Take off your masks, pussies. I wanna see the faces of the people who kidnap my friends.

Just judging by the cover, my guess is that this album sucks.

Well. If there's nothing identifying them as an arm of the state, it's legal to shoot them in self defense should they try to kidnap you. You can also say that the law doesn't matter anymore as the US government is flagrantly violating it but that also means that the law no longer has legitimacy as the government is breaking it's end of the social contract. Therefore, normal morality in the absence of law applies which says that self defense is legitimate.

12 gauge slugs is the answer here.

All I see are a couple of MS13 members about to perform a kidnapping, better alert SWAT!
- The call is coming from inside the country.

377 comments