OPTIMATES OUT
OPTIMATES OUT
19 comments
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The Roman empire fell like 5 different times over the course of 2000 years.
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Yes but we are specifically referencing rhe republic.
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yeah and whose fault was that i'm looking at you honytawk
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The fall of the republic was not the fall of Rome. It was the end of democracy and the rise of emperors.
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tbf, the conflict that characterized the Late Republic was of the defenders of the Republic being enemies of democracy; while those destablizing the Republic being nominal allies of democratic processes.
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19 comments
Explanation: Julius Caesar is sometimes regarded as the man who destroyed the Roman Republic. This is a... contentious position for numerous reasons, not least of which being the extreme dysfunction caused by the conservative faction (Optimates) of the Republic.
It’s always the people you most suspect.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimates_and_populares
That seems to be 19th century historical revisionism. The only thing we really know about them politically is they were diverse but all wanted power to remain with the senate, compared to the other faction of populares that focused on popular assemblies.
Through the lens of modern times, I've begun to see the entire Roman empire as a self-reinforcing system that created ever-increasing economic disparity for the benefit of a constantly decreasing number of powerful people. By the time reforms were clearly needed, vested interests were too well-situated to resist them.
The pretenses of democratic society were protected only by the prevailing norms of political conduct, and if you had to name any names for the fall of the empire, it would be hard to lay blame even at the feet of the Gracchi brothers or those who killed them, much less at Caesar's.
Perhaps mere norms will always be insufficient to sustain an unsustainable state of affairs. We humans are so clever and ambitious, but too rarely wise and foresighted.
But that's not how it happened? The height of economic disparity in the Roman polity was focused in the Late Republic and the Late Empire, with a vast period inbetween - including the majority of the period that most people think of when they think of the "Roman Empire" - where economic disparity was reduced rather than intensified.
That's the thing, though - the prevailing norms of political conduct in the Roman Republic were generally anti-democratic. The violation of those (vile) political norms are what provoked a (illegal) reaction from the conservatives.
Yeah. All systems are an arms race of intellects, one side seeking to exploit, and one to close loopholes. And with little consistency in who takes which side from issue-to-issue.
You sound Luke a real Cicero, my friend!
Crassus. Crassus killed the Roman Empire by allowing the huns to burn it down, while he was charging for firefighter services.
/s