BreadPanes 58: "Corporatism, Not Capitalism"

Literally this guy i knows EXACT argument every time we discuss this. Then I describe how capitalism inevitably becomes corporatism because of HOW IT WORKS.

Gotta love how basic logic is far beyond the comprehension of ancaps.

Tell me, who is going to enforce property rights in an anarchist setting? Whoever has the biggest guns?
\ So, you're telling me that a person or group will use force and threaten violence against those that don't play along? How is that anarchic?

This is dumb as snake would never even recognize people dying by anything but their own hand. Snake still an idiot

say what you want but i think it's pretty cool that they made a "victims of communism" museum. it's a building where you walk through a main door to get in and learn about people who were victimized by at least ostensibly communist regimes. it's great because the main door works both ways: if you're already inside, you can walk through the same door and step into the "victims of capitalism" museum.

Honestly, I'd be tempted to grant the premise. Let's work together to end corporations. See what happens. When every commercial entity is an employee-owned small business worth less than $5M, communism vs. socialism vs. capitalism becomes a very interesting discussion.

Source/explanation for why capitalism kills 100 million people every 5 years please?

…There’s this interesting minor character in a TV show called Pantheon. Spoilers, but basically the protagonists are fresh off opposing “Steve Jobs but extra fascist.” They meet these Chinese intelligence agents in VR going after this superintelligence holy grail like everyone is. They come off as patriotic and almost deliberately stereotypical.

Anyway, later, these intelligence agents end up temporarily stuck with “Indian Hyper-Capitalist Hitler” in VR (it’s complicated, okay?), and one of them sits down to play a board game:

https://pantheon-amc.fandom.com/wiki/Han_Ping

I’ll just transcribe what Han Ping, who it turns out, is an mind-uploaded old man, said:

‘’’ I was never one for board games myself… Too much to do, my work, my studies. But I came to see their value after I was sent to prison. Laughs a little. In captivity, one must keep one’s mind active, but not too active.

(Speaking of his intelligence friend nursing the wounded). The party never sent her to prison, so, she never had to learn that lesson.

One game. Indulge me?

…

(Indian Capitalist Hitler): You were a political prisoner? Hm? A democracy activist then? Challenged the Party’s authority?

(Han Ping, after laughing amusedly): This is what everyone outside of China thinks. The only reason to oppose the PRC with something as decadent as western democracy… I spoke out against the Party precisely because they have strayed from the path of democratic centralism. They have become capitalists, no better than the West.

(Hitler): Why, then, would you serve the Party by being uploaded?

(Ha Ping): I do not serve the Party. I serve China. Uploaded Intelligence has the potential to become this century’s greatest leap forward, a revolutionary innovation of which neither Marx nor Mao could have dreamed. All obstacles for the proletariat victory, the riddle of scarcity, dilemmas or distribution and disparity, these are all finally resolved when we remove the material imperative. The dialectical struggle of history has always, essentially, been a question of how to apply justice to matter. Take away matter, and what remains, is justice… Your move.

‘’’

That stuck with me.

The whole show is largely about governments and their corrupted ideals falling apart when challenged with really disruptive tech, along with those of the characters it followed.

Here on Lemmy, when I poke around communities, I kind of hope to see that ‘purist’ and anti government sentiment. But when push comes to shove, it seems like folks always fall back to party lines instead, not necessarily the PRC’s but wherever they’re from.

So yeah, when I see this meme, I just see two people about to yell at each other over whatever atrocities the other is in denial over. There’s no growth of self awareness, just hostility. “The Don’t tread on me” ignorant jerk meme may be too true, but it could easily be extended a few panels to portray red shirt guy as a jerk too.

The problem isn't an ism. These arguments are so tiring. Greed is a problem endemic to our species. It's much larger than an economic system can solve. Although... communism is a power structure and capitalism is a monetary system. People conflating the two are always doing so out of ignorance or bad faith.

Political ideologies don't kill people. Individuals kill people.

Capitalism happens to reward this kind of behaviour but it doesn't "cause" it.

Edit: ML users don't seem to have a concept of nuanced political discussion. Should we just forgive these crimes against humanity on the individual level and blame an ideology instead? Is it true that communism inherently involves the death of millions of people? Or were those bad actors doing bad things because they are bad people?

Edit 2: Capitalism is a symptom not the cause. Until we address what led us to capitalism we will never see a better world.