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5 comments

  • around leftwing celebrities doesn’t work,

    Because Bojo and trump have been such a success. The left is far far from unique on hero worshiped leader. I agree it's a bad idea in genrsl. But these events are not the sign.

    Sorry bollocks to the whole argument. First JC and ZS are not the leaders of this new party. They are the founders. The whole point of the party. Also the very reason ZS claimed to have acted independently of the others. Was membership control. Both sides openly agree only the membership should have the right to select leaders. ZS just claimed some background actors were trying to limit that before members existed,

    The members get to select the leadership once the party is formed. Your party is not being built around anything but the idea of a left wing democratic party.

    The current party in government is currently involved in a much bigger breakup where members are being kicked out for political difference. As was the past government and reform. The whole idea that any existing political party is free of such arguments is bull shit with zero credibility.

    • Why bring Johnson and Trump into it? Novara obviously aren't supportive of them

      And yeah ostensibly the party is for the members and their control but let's be real, this isn't how it's gone so far. Sultana did this without consensus and took thousands upon thousands of peoples money, they got over £1m in one day. What should have been a huge opportunity to get momentum going and leave behind the shitshow that happened around Your Party being announced in the beginning just turned into an even bigger shitshow

      Huge amounts of people feel betrayed by this and rightly so. All those people being lied to and having their money taken, some paying over £50 towards it. And now it's opened the party up to fraud investigations and so on. Not saying the fault is solely with Sultana by the way, just she seems to be most responsible

      Your argument is almost entirely whataboutisms. We can't be doing what most people do and just deny wrong that our own side does and deflect with examples of the other side doing the same thing. It doesn't help anything and means we don't learn from mistakes. All of this stuff around membership, fees and so on should have been hashed out so long ago at this point between them, ideally before they even announced the party. It's very basic stuff

      We desperately need a united antifascist popular front with as many non-fascists in it as possible. We don't have time to fuck about with stuff like this. I'm not usually one who bangs on about left unity that much but it absolutely needs to happen now. I'm hoping this is the last of the big fuckups and we can get on with stopping our rapid descent into fascism

      • Because Johnson and trump are very much relevent to the Idea Hero Worshiping leaders is a left wing thing. All sides are able to do so,

        But my wording is trying to be non biased by not claiming one side was correct in there actions.

        And you have made some potentially slanderous claims. The membership fees paid to the site are not in ZSs control MOU the group selected by all founders have confirmed this. Both ZS and the MOU members have said the payments go to their accounts. As expected by all those involved in the founding.

        So No ZS in no way took the money. The initial set up of MOU was done specifically to prevent any one group having all control.

        She did act alone in launching the membership. And failed to inform those signing up she was doing so before 20000 plus joined. But that is all she can be accused of.

        As did JCs team act without full authority in launching the roadmap plan. As the agreement was no docs would be released without both founders approval.

        Non of us know if her claims that other insiders were taking control are true. But she dose have other insiders backing her claims. And JCs Team only confirmed the people she accused did not have access to the accounts. Dispite the fact ZS did not actually claim that.

        My what aboutism is exactly that. Because the whole idea that a new political party is a failure. Purely based on internal arguments existing. Is a freaking stupid argument every party in history has arguments as bad and often worse then this.

        Some times media failing to compare criticism to the normal event. is a very valid argument against that criticism,

        Edit: As for the time to form an anti fascist front,

        First news articles like this Tring to make more out of an argument then actually exists are more responsible for delaying things then the arguments. Failing to recognise all political parties are constantly going thorough fights like this and using it to raise advertising while storing anger in supporters. Sure as hell ain't speeding anything up.

        As for how much time we have. Nothing can be done before the next general election. So forming a strong party able to handle disagreements. Is way more important then doing so in days. At the worst building the party before May's local elections is important. As it can allow us to show the earliest support. The idea a huge hurry exists is not a valid one. Forming a party able to unite people is more important then silencing disagreements.

  • Except we also have 20 years of cyber-utopian leaderless experience to tell us that actually gets you nowhere.