Poll: Capitalism is out … and socialism is in
Poll: Capitalism is out … and socialism is in
www.politico.com
Just a moment...
80 comments
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Due to history, many East-Europeans (and US apparently) seem to understand socialism as communist dictatorship, because soviet puppets liked to call themselves that.
if you say "democratic socialism" everybody seems to understand it more as the Nordic model.
Political propaganda really likes to use that confusion.
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For me, it’s simply that socialism is a sliding scale.
Did you help out the grandmother that had fallen off her mobility device on the sidewalk? Congratulations, you’re partly SOCIALIST. She didn’t pay for that assistance and yet you gave her value anyway.
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Until we start seeing some socialists in positions of power, passing socialist policies, I'm going to respectfully disagree.
They're right that capitalism is out; but look around. Socialism isn't in. Fascism is.
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"Passing socialist policies" would require a majority in Congress. What you have right now, is a growing list of socialist politicians currently holding office. And they are having an impact on the direction things are heading.
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Are you saying the white supremacists running the country are socialist?
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You can totally have a "socialist worker's party" that is actually anti-Marxist. You can also privatize some state-owned enterprises to maximize profits while still calling it a socialist party. Might as well abolish the unions while you're at it. These labels are just marketing baits for luring in the working class.
The blueprint is out there, just look up the history of NSDAP, and you'll see what I mean.
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They’re right that capitalism is out
Is it? I haven't seen a shortage of landlords and my bills keep getting delivered to the door on a regular schedule.
Fascism is.
Fascism is just imperialism returning to the core. We're no longer doing the "Fuck Around" kind of capitalism. We are now in the "Find Out" portion of the economic model.
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They tried so hard to make socialism a bad word. And non of their voters know one single thing of what it is.
Spoiler: it's from the countries doing better than you.
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The US should stop saying socialism = evil communism ...
One can be social towards others without giving away all of one's personal possessions and liberties...
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Personal property exists under socialism and communism.
Private property does not. A factory cannot be privately held under communism. Roads belong to the people. Workers own the farms.
It’s not “our toothbrush, Comrade”
But you also don’t need a totalitarian state to regulate every last thing. There can be independence for those who work and manage the resources; you can still create a restaurant and be paid a high wage for managing it, coming up with new and innovative dishes etc.
The point is to remove the incentive to exploit for profit. It’s literally the root cause of every scam.
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Uh... People in China and North Korea are somehow doing better than me here in Finland? Why? Please do elaborate. Assuming you can.
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Putting China and North Korea in the same booth shows how little you know about this subject.
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You realise the comment you're replying to was targeted at Americans, yes?
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They're not going to answer your question. They never do. These people don't know what socialism and communism is and in the same breath say that Republicans don't know what socialism and communism is either.
These people think that programs that benefit the indigent or economically impaired are inherently socialist programs. They think that universal healthcare is socialism as well.
They don't understand what a Republic is and they don't understand the difference between private and public ownership of the means of production. They think that socialism will make everybody equal but don't understand what equity is.
They think that Bernie Sanders and AOC are socialists and have no idea what a Democratic socialist is in the first place.
They don't know anything so they cannot possibly answer your question.
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Are you calling them socialists because of their name, particularly NK? That's part of the propaganda. They're not, at least not in practice. The Nazi party did the same thing.
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Europeans asking why colonized countries don't have the riches they took from them will never not be funny.
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Finland has social democrats / socialists who have been in power, right? And decent labor unions, I thought. Must admit, I assumed Finland was similar in politics to the other Nordics, but I'll stand corrected if not.
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People in China and North Korea are somehow doing better than me here in Finland?
Depends heavily on who "people" are in either instance. There are absolutely people in China living happier, healthier, and more prosperous lives than folks out in Finland. There are NKians living better, too (although significantly fewer due to Finland's position as a global north energy exporter). There are Chinese and Korean folks living worse, too, of course.
If you expand the question to all of Europe, relative to China/NK, then the numbers look even better for the East Asian states. Certainly, folks living in bombed-out Ukrainian border towns are doing a lot worse than their North Korean peers. And significantly worse than the folks living peaceful and prosperous lives in Chongqing or Shanghai. Middle Eastern refugees scraping by in Turkyie and Romania, or getting surrounded by angry mobs of protesters in some shitty apartment in the UK or France, are doing substantially worse. Elderly pensioners working into their 80s in countries like Bulgaria or Moldova are far worse off than their Chinese and NK peers, comfortably retired in their mid-50s.
For some reason, westerners have their view of these countries trapped in the early 90s and refuse to believe the intervening 30 year span has delivered any kind of social or economic progress. You can watch full reel-to-reel videos of people touring these countries and all you get back is "Potemkin Village! Fake News! Everyone is secretly starving just outside the focus of the cameras!" in the comments. Pure denialism. But its necessary to believe a country like Finland is the best any nation on earth can possibly be when your government is in the process of freezing university funding, cutting social welfare benefits, and fattening up its national security budgets.
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Finally!
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If you want the populace to support capitalism, the wealthy need to share the spoils voluntarily.
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Finally!
80 comments
Capitalism is not the opposite of socialism in fact the people in the picture advocate for nordic style socialism which is very much capitalism based just with strong safety nets.
So........ social democracy ?
Nordic Style socialism is actually called social democracy. Americans are somehow latching onto the term given to them by the right.
The right didn't give us "social democracy". You're very confused.
Hopefully they will realize that the best America has ever been outside of racial and social issues is when FDR was president who was basically a social Democrat, although he preferred the term progressive and new nationalist. The decades after his economic reforms were the greatest time in American history, and then the Republicans got power again with Nixon and started to dismantle all of it, by the time Regan was in office, he killed organized labor and cut taxes on corporations leading to the current situation of hyper Inflationary debt based economics.
Not Americans, American media which is all completely controlled by oligarchs.
Capitalism works best with strong rules in place to prevent psychopaths and sociopaths from expanding too large.
But those rules inevitably fail because under capitalism wealth always consolidates under the psychopaths and sociopaths. Like, there’s no way to have capitalism and not have that happen. It’s part of the fundamental structure of private ownership of capital.
Fully agree. Capitalism with strong safety net and social oversight is a really good system.
People like to hate on capitalism but capitalism + social oversight is really the best system.
Exactly! Every widget that sells well leads the inventor to think they can effectively run societies. How the hell does anyone make that leap?
From the American point of view anything that even dares to suggest the possibility that there might be limitations to corporations' liberty to freely exploit and consume the population and their environment is communism, anarchy, heresy, and terrorism., and anathema to capitalism, democracy, and Freedom®(some limitations might apply).
I hope America tries a bit of socialism next because they clearly have the power to do so. The billionaires will not pack up and start leaving, I just don't see that ever happening. Especially when there are clear examples in California that is outcompeting every other state despite having higher taxes and more social programs.