1y ago

Euler diagram of the terminology of the British Isles

Apologies. This might not be the perfect community for the post.

107 comments

The term British Isles is, of course, disputed by the Irish.
- They had a signpost in the Atlantic saying “Irish Isles” for weeks before we noticed.
- How about we collective reestablish the name "Albion", then?
  
  Treacherous Albion

- I think this chart is out of date
  
  Interesting though as it shows what "hard Brexit" was. Not in the customs union, economic area or council; just yeeted all the way out.
  The best part is the voting slip never defined any of it and, if taken literally, the UK would still be in the EEA.
  
  https://giphy.com/gifs/hoppip-art-television-Of35X575BJlle
- Why does this feel like high school all over again
  
  Because it is. You never graduated and you have a test right now that you didn't study for. You're also in your underwear.

OK, looking at this I can now understand why it may not all make immediate sense to someone who didn't grow up here.
- And in the US, there’s definitely a subset that believes England means Great Britain or even the United Kingdom.
  Same folks that referred to the entire USSR as Russia, probs.
  
  There are plenty of people in the US that refer to England as "London".

The Scots wouldn't agree with this. I've spent a lot of time there.
The Shetlands, Orkneys, Harris and the rest of the Hebrides aren't even mentioned. Haha
- Well, Scots would often say "we're not British but we are Scottish" since British usually means "from the UK" but I don't think any of them would deny that most of Scotland is in Great Britain.
- And Anglesey in Wales, and Wight in England, etc. Honestly I'm not a fan of this diagram.
- Those are groups of northern islands, so they were excluded. Unlike Northern Ireland, which isn't an island so it was included.
  ???
- The North shall rise again

British Isles is not the term the Irish use. Atlantic Archipelago or just the isles is proffered.
- Atlantic Archipelago
  this is totally the Bahamas. Or Palm Beach condos.
  
  Well they're just as much in the Atlantic as us so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
- Britannia and Hibernia. Brittano-Hibernian Islands? Atlantic archipelago seems vague as an outsider from neither Britain or Ireland.

Now if someone can tell me what exactly "Britain" is? People say it all the time, like this is the largest statue of a vulva in Britain. Just shorthand for Great Britain, or is it something else?
- Just that - shorthand for Great Britain. Easier to use when you don't think it's so great, like if you live in the Republic of Ireland!
  
  Republic of Ireland
  Which on the diagram is coterminous with “Ireland (state)”?
- It's like saying America to mean the United States. Technically America includes Canada and excludes Hawaii. But when people say America they actually mean US + Alaska and Hawaii but not Canada.
- Most people not from the UK will use "Britain" as an alternative word for "England".

This is a good way to distinguish the terms. I wonder if there is a good colour scheme to also indicate the nation states as district from the landmasses

This chart: "England, Scotland and Wales are in Great Britain"
Wight, the Scillies, Anglesey, Sheppy, Anglesey, the Shetlands, the Orkneys, the Hebrides, and thousands more: "Are we a joke to you?"
- I think Sheppey is a joke to everyone including the people that have to live there.
  
  I’m trying to remember though, aren’t the Jersey, Guernsey, and Man somehow closer to Scotland or Wales status than say Sheppey or the Orkneys?
- None of those are in Great Britain, because they are islands and therefore not part of the island of Great Britain.
  
  But they are all part of England, Scotland or Wales which, according to the diagram, are within Great Britain...
- Aren't those all part of one of the other three? The orkneys and Hebrides are part of Scotland.
  
  That's my point: they're all part of England/Scotland/Wales, but they aren't part of Great Britain.

The words that ultimately gave us “Britain” have been in use for about 2,000 years, give or take a century or two. Politically and culturally a tremendous lot has happened in the meantime. Which is probably why we’re left with this almost indecipherable mine field.
- I just stay 'fuck it' and call them all Celtoi.
  
  That’s a nice word. I like to use Pritani but might mix it up a bit from now on.
- And it doesn’t even include Bretagne.
  
  Tell me about it. Immigrants? From Britain? Taking over (culturally) a foreign land. You couldn’t make it up. I once witnessed some drunk Bretons speaking to some drunk Welsh in their respective languages… and “kind of” understanding each other.

FYI "British Islands" isn't a specific name whereas all the others are
- I’m not sure I follow. It looks as specific in the diagram as all the other names?
  
  It's not an actual term that is used though. "Great Britain" and "Ireland" are the names of the islands, "the United Kingdom" and "(the Republic of) Ireland" are the names of the sovereign states, "the British Isles" is (one) name for all the bits of land. "British Islands" is not an official term or one that anyone uses.

Huh, is that the old Jersey?
- Yup. Though original is probably the better description.
  
  The new jersey is extra crispy
  
  The OJ
- and the Original Guernsey (not to be confused with the new one)
- They prefer the term "Jersey Classic"
  
  Ye Olde Jersey
- A quiet little tax haven full of polite stuffy old people. I'm thinking of visiting the new one, I assume it's much the same?
  
  Not at all.

Can someone do one for terminology? Is calling people British mainly socially acceptable? I imagine the exception is the Irish from Ireland, but those from northern Ireland may give that a pass?
- I'd think calling Scot a Brit is like calling Peruvian an American. Technically true but kinda rude
  
  Depends on their own views on the union. Don't go lumping people together as all having the same opinion now!
- northern Ireland may give that a pass?
  Never push a national identity onto someone from Northern Ireland. Because that's also a political Identity
  In general British is a national identity. English/Scottish/Welsh would be a cultural identity.
  You would call them what they say they are.
- Call someone from Scotland British and see how that works out for you….
  
  Seems to work very well in most cases.
  
  Going by the last polls it's about an equal chance whether they'd approve or not

So I'm late to the party here, but this is a very early version of a diagram I'm putting together that corrects a couple of issues with the diagram OP posted.

As I said: very early and also very incomplete, but what's there is accurate.
- I’m into it! I can’t wait to see where this goes.

Now add the EU.

The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland should pull an epic gamer move and simplify this chart.

they call the state ROI (republic of ireland) to distinguish between the island

No one outside of the UK includes Ireland in the British Isles.
- "British and Irish Isles" is the most common descriptor for the whole archipelago I see, and it seems a fair one even if it's a bit long. It'd be nice if we could all agree on something catchier but that seems unlikely, all things considered
  
  Gaelic Isles
- I would... (Australian)
  
  Speaking of! Shouldn't Australia be in that chart too? And I'd like to see the "commonwealth" in the diagram too. It's all good complicated!

Why the hell is it so complicated
I though it was complicated here in Australia where our states/territories (idk the differencd) all can have some very different rules and stuff at least we have mostly clear borders
- Why the hell is it so complicated
  One hell of a complex and crazy history in a very tiny space over the last two thousand years.
  Hell, you could just cleave off the last thousand as a reference and be done with that. Although that does leave out some juicy origin stories.
- Why the hell is it so complicated
  imperialism

The state Irland shouldn't be republic of Irland ?
- No, the state is called Ireland as defined in its constitution.
  
  Thanks for the information.

what about canada and australia?
- For a moment, I thought, this comment was in response to the Europe map someone else posted. There the answer would have been easy, of course: Eurovision. 🙃
- show the entire commonwealth, and every place the UK has ever colonized?
  
  well sorry idk the difference between commomweath and the map, isn't that the point?

Ireland wtf?

Apparently, Scots and Irish believe British == English. Or, they can't stand the thought of being labeled in any similar category as the English.
- At least for Scots, this is not a general case. Some consider themselves not to be British because they don't want Scotland to be part of the UK, others will take exception to the conflation of "British" with "English" because that implies that Scotland is just considered part of England. You don't even have to have strong feelings either way about either England or the UK for that one.
  At least for now, the word "British" is associated more with the political entity of the UK than the geographical entity of the island of Great Britain. That most of Scotland is on the island of Great Britain will not persuade anyone in the first camp.
  
  Do people that live in this diagram consider “Britain” synonymous with “Great Britain”?

107 comments