Report: Potential NYT lawsuit could force OpenAI to wipe ChatGPT and start over
Report: Potential NYT lawsuit could force OpenAI to wipe ChatGPT and start over
OpenAI could be fined up to $150,000 for each piece of infringing content.
Not a strong case for NYT, but I've long believed that AI is vulnerable to copyright law and likely the only thing to stop/slow it's progression. Given the major issues with all AI and how inequitable and bigoted they are and their increasing use, I'm hoping this helps to start conversations about limiting the scope of AI or application.
55It's pretty apparent that AI developers are training their applications using stolen images and data.
This was always going to end up in the courts.
40A human brain is just the summation of all the content it's ever witnessed, though, both paid and unpaid. There's no such thing as artwork that is completely 100% original, everything is inspired by something else we're already familiar with. Otherwise viewers of the art would just interpret it as random noise. There has to be some amount of familiarity for a viewer to identify with it.
So if someone builds an atom-perfect artificial brain from scratch, sticks it in a body, and shows it around the world, should we expect the creator to pay licensing fees to the owners of everything it looks at?
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Yeah I've heard a lot of people talking about the copyright stuff with respect to image generation AIs, but as far as I can see there's no fundamental reason that text generating AIs wouldn't be subject to the same laws. We'll see how the lawsuit goes though I suppose.
11Neither are infringement. Artists attempting to bully platforms into not training on them doesn't change the fact that training on information would be black and white fair use if it didn't have absolutely nothing in common with copyright infringement. Learning from copyrighted material is not distributing it.
If the court doesn't just ignore the law, which has nothing that could theoretically be interpreted to support the idea that training is infringement in any way, this case will be the precedent that sets AI training free.
And you, as an individual, should want that. Breaking the ability to learn from prior art is still literally guaranteed to disenfranchise the overwhelming majority of creators in all formats, because there are massive IP holders who have the data sets to build generative AI and produce unlimited "free" content, while no individual will be able to do the same because they'll have nothing to train on. If you think Disney has a monopoly now, wait until they can train AI on 100 years of 95% of TV and movies and no one else can make AI.
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I'm slightly optimistic. It might slow down the progression of those language models now, but I hope that it becomes a "benign disincentive" in the long run, forcing a shift from LLM to better models.
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NPR reported that a "top concern" is that ChatGPT could use The Times' content to become a "competitor" by "creating text that answers questions based on the original reporting and writing of the paper's staff."
That's something that can currently be done by a human and is generally considered fair use. All a language model really does is drive the cost of doing that from tens or hundreds of dollars down to pennies.
To defend its AI training models, OpenAI would likely have to claim "fair use" of all the web content the company sucked up to train tools like ChatGPT. In the potential New York Times case, that would mean proving that copying the Times' content to craft ChatGPT responses would not compete with the Times.
A fair use defense does not have to include noncompetition. That's just one factor in a fair use defense and the other factors may be enyon their own.
I think it'll come down to how "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" and "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;" are interpreted by the courts. Do we judge if a language model by the model itself or by the output itself? Can a model itself be uninfringing and it still be able to potentially produce infringing content?
28The model is intended for commercial use, uses the entire work and creates derivative works based on it which are in direct competition.
18You are kind of hitting on one of the issues I see. The model and the works created by the model may b considered two separate things. The model itself may not be infringing in of itself. It's not actually substantially similar to any of the individual training data. I don't think anyone can point to part of it and say this is a copy of a given work. But the model may be able to create works that are infringing.
6uses the entire work
This may not actually be true though. If it's a Q&A interface, it's very unlikely they are training the model on the entire work (since model training is extremely expensive and done extremely infrequently). Now sure, maybe they actually are training on NYT articles, but a similarly powerful LLM could exist without training on those articles and still answer questions about it.
Suppose you wanted to make your own Bing Chat. If you tried to answer the questions entirely based on what the model is trained on, you'd get crap results because the model may not have been trained on any new data in over 2 years. More likely, you're using retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) to select portions of articles, generally the ones you got from your search results, to provide as context to your LLM.
Also, the argument that these are derivative works seems to be a bit iffy. Derivative works use substantial portions of the original work, but generally speaking a Q&A interface like this would be purely generative. With certain carefully-crafted prompts, it may be able to generate portions of the original work, but assuming they're using RAG, it's extremely unlikely they would generate the exact same content that's in the article because they wouldn't be using the entirety of the article for generation anyway.
How is this any different from a person scanning an article and writing their own summary based on what they read? Is doing so a violation of copyright, and if so, aren't news outlets especially notorious for doing this (writing articles based on the articles put out by other news outlets)?
Edit: I should probably add as well, but search engines have been indexing and training models on the content they crawl over for years, and that never seemed to cause anyone to complain about copyright. It's interesting to me that it's suddenly a problem now.
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That’s something that can currently be done by a human and is generally considered fair use.
That's kind of the point though isn't it? Fair use is only fair use because it's a human doing it, not an algorithm.
12I think there's a good case that it's transformative entirely. It doesn't just spit out NYT articles. I feel like saying they "stole IP" from NYT doesn't really hunt because that would mean anyone who read the NYT and then wrote any kind of article at some point also engaged in IP theft because almost certainly their consumption of the NYT influenced their writing in some way. ( I think the same thing holds up to a weaker degree with generative image AI just seems a bit different sometimes directly copying the actual brushstrokes etc of real artists there's also only so many ways to arrange words)
It is however an entirely new thing, so it's up to judges for now to rule how that works.
10I have it on good authority that the writers of the NYT have also read other news papers before. This blatant IP theft goes deeper than we could have ever imagined.
7Yeah, we need to get this in front of the Supreme Court.
1
I hope not. Not a big fan of propriety AI (local AI all the way, and I hope people leak all these models, both code and weights), but fuck copyright and fuck capitalism which makes automation seem like a bad thing when it shouldn't be ;p nya
25Yes, because AI and automation will definitely not be on the side of big capital, right? Right?
Be real. The cost of building means they're always going to favour the wealthy. At best right now were running public copies of the older and smaller models. Local AI will always be running behind the state of the art big proprietary models, which will always be in the hands of the richest moguls and companies in the world.
16Be real. The cost of building means they're always going to favour the wealthy. At best right now were running public copies of the older and smaller models. Local AI will always be running behind the state of the art big proprietary models, which will always be in the hands of the richest moguls and companies in the world.
Distribution of LoRA-style fine-tuning weights means that FOSS AI systems have a long term advantage because of compounding effects. .
That is, high-quality data provided for smaller models and very small "model finetuning" weights, which is more accessible to open groups, are sufficiently accessible and modular in their improvements to a given model that the FOSS community can take and run with it to compete effectively with proprietary groups from even a single leak.
Furthermore, smaller and more efficient models which can be run on lower end hardware also avoid the need to send off potentially sensitive data to AI companies and enable the kinds of FOSS compounding effect explained above.
This doesn't just affect people who like privacy, but also companies with data privacy requirements . - as long as the medium models are "good enough" (which I think they are ;p), the compounding effects of LoRA tuning and better data privacy properties, and further developments which already exist in research papers towards much lower weight-count models and training mechanisms capable of greater weight efficiency to induce zero-shot learning, mean local AI can compete with proprietary stuff. It's still early days but it is absolutely doable even today with fairly low-end hardware, and it can only get better for the reasons provided.
Furthermore, "intellectual property" and copyright stuff have an absolutely massive and arguably even more powerful set of industries behind them. Trying to strengthen IP stuff against AI means that AI will only be available to those controlling these existing IP resources and it's unending stranglehold on technology and communication and people as a whole :/
AI I think is also forcing more and more people to look and reevaluate society's relationship with work and labour. And frankly I think that this is super important, as it enables a greater chance of more radical liberation from the existing structures of not just capitalism and it's hierarchies but the near-mandatoriness of work as a whole (though there has already been some stuff like this around the concepts of "bullshit jobs").
I think people should use this as an opportunity to unionise and also try and push for cooperative and democratic control of orgs ., and many other things that I CBA to list out ;3
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No leaks necessary; there are a number of open-source LLM's available:
https://github.com/Hannibal046/Awesome-LLM#open-llm
The key differentiator between these and proprietary offerings will always be the training data. Large amounts of high-quality data will be more difficult for an individual or a small team to source. If lawsuits like this one block ingestion of otherwise publicly-available data, we could have a future where copyright holders charge AI builders for access to their data. If that happens, "knowledge" could become exclusive to various AI platforms much the same way popular shows or movies are exclusive to streaming platforms.
6the opensource models are so bad that they give you responses out of context. they have completely random responses.
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Sam Altman stated that the cost of training GPT-4 was more than $100 million, so I think they'll survive this (just ask daddy Microsoft for more money). Not sure if the figure includes cost of obtaining the training data though.
It's pretty funny if the thing that would prevents AI from taking over human jobs is the copyright law though.
15It is funny, bureaucracy definitely slows humanity progression
3While we play civil law, the world plays realpolitik.
Chances are good this legal challenge against AI is the work of our geopolitical rivals.
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What a shitty clickbait title, there are many lawsutes all over the world to decide if the use of public data for AI training without permission is against copyright laws and you could probably write hundread articles with that title...
12🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:
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The result, experts speculate, could be devastating to OpenAI, including the destruction of ChatGPT's dataset and fines up to $150,000 per infringing piece of content.
If the Times were to follow through and sue ChatGPT-maker OpenAI, NPR suggested that the lawsuit could become "the most high-profile" legal battle yet over copyright protection since ChatGPT's explosively popular launch.
This speculation comes a month after Sarah Silverman joined other popular authors suing OpenAI over similar concerns, seeking to protect the copyright of their books.
As of this month, the Times' TOS prohibits any use of its content for "the development of any software program, including, but not limited to, training a machine learning or artificial intelligence (AI) system."
In the memo, the Times' chief product officer, Alex Hardiman, and deputy managing editor Sam Dolnick said a top "fear" for the company was "protecting our rights" against generative AI tools.
the memo asked, echoing a question being raised in newsrooms that are beginning to weigh the benefits and risks of generative AI.
9Watch out bot, the Times might come for you next...
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While my gut reaction is "yeah, make them pay for this art and these articles they're stealing to train the model" - I don't think copyright is going to actually win the creators any money for their work this time.
I'd rather it remains a wild west. and copyright loses.
9Everyone wants they're piece of the pie. I just want AI to evolve to the point we can use it to create real innovation. But we'll never get there with all these greedy removed.
8So you'd rather some of the world's biggest corporations get to monopolise AI profits (meanwhile pushing out some very dodgy 'creations' including b******* text masquerading as truth) while the people whose actual creative labour it is built on get nothing? Who's the real greedy ones here? Seems to me it's the likes of Google and OpenAI.
12When little people torrent they get prosecuted, when Google steals all the text they can get their hands on, it gets legalised...
10I read an article in NYT and then I used the information to make money. Come sue me.
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I have trouble seeing this happening, and if it does someone is for sure going to secretly preserve the weights. It's just such a baby-out-with-the-bathwater situation.
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