Chinese Economy Collapsing

If it wasn't collapsing, it wouldn't be in the red.

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I think when the highest quality most respected China collapse preachers say collapse, they mean entering a Japan style stagnation. I'm not sure, because that would require me to consume a lot of China collapse preacher content, but I think that's how they can justify the narrative across different levels of seriousness.

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Even that narrative is fundamentally flawed because Japan's stagnation in the 80s was a direct result of US imposing Plaza Accords on Japan. There is no opportunity for US to do the same with China.

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If you hold that graph up to your ear, you can actually hear the liberals going "yes but actually..."

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I did and they sent me this WSJ article

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- Shoot, I don't have it offhand but you should send the Ben Norton video back, where he talked about how China is letting their property sector fail in order to shift their economy to being focused on green energy and tech.
  
  As well, he mentions how morally corrupt it is to use property as an investment and how shifting where your investments are is actually a better idea.
  
  2

yeah so many propagandists point to the slow down in economic growth from "socialist god" levels to "economic miracle" levels and are like china is falling apart they are due for a depression any day

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Gotta have a reason to keep those Gordon Chang books on the shelf.

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Tbf China’s economy is less decayed (there’s less surplus capital), but that’s not a point for capitalism.

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As an aside - anyone know what’s going on in Germany? I was under the impression they were doing things pretty well over there

6

Much of German economy was supported by farming and manufacturing sectors. These were predicated on getting cheap energy from Russia to stay competitive. At the start of the war, German government provided subsidies to offset the shock of energy prices shooting up. The idea was that Russian economy would collapse quickly due to western sanctions, and then everything would go back to normal.

Now that subsidies are running out, Germany can't compete with manufacturing in places like China where there energy is much cheaper, and farmers are literally coming out with pitchforks because they can't make ends meet.

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- Very interesting. Thank you for the response! I’m a somewhat ignorant westerner so I always think of Germany as being very much a high end manufacturing and sciences based country - making fairly complex industrial machinery and precision tools and such. I didn’t know they relied on Russia so heavily, though I suppose it makes sense given its location.
  
  Unfortunate that they didn’t take some notes from Frances book and get heavy into Nuclear.
  
  8

One data point doesn't make a trend. The Chinese economy isn't collapsed, but the rate of growth of GDP for China has been negative (rate of growth, it's still positive growth) since at least 2012 from what I can see. The US rate of growth is fairly static over the same time (a slightly positive rate of growth, but not much), but about half the value of China's.

Don't cherry pick data. It's not useful.

-28

That's only a problem for those who demand exponential growth. And your assumptions are based on the unsustainable model of western imperialism; as China implements it's green energy, transport, automated agriculture, and housing policies, those sectors won't need to keep 'growing' as they do in capitalist states to prop up GDP. Even if it's right that if the slowing rate of growth leads to a net GDP shrinkage, it doesn't portend collapse.

That's not counting the effect of BRICS+ and the BRI on interpreting GDP. You don't need such a high GDP when you cooperate with your neighbours, when your GDP isn't a measure of how much you bully your neighbours and oppress your foreign and domestic workforce.

Many have repeatedly and outstandingly wrongly claimed either bluntly or in what they think is 'clever' subtleness that China is about to collapse. Do you really want to be in that crowd when the music stops?

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- Permanently Deleted
  
  12
- That's only a problem for those who demand exponential growth.
  
  Dude, GDP only matters for that. I'm not the one who started talking about GDP. Either this thread is useless because the measure (GDP) is useless, or it's perfectly fine to talk about the context of what the threads about. Either way, it's the OP you should complain about.
  
  Anyway, China's GDP is growing at about double the US's. It doesn't matter though, right? It's growing at a negative rate, but it's still growing faster than almost anyone else, because China('s government) cares about GDP, even though GDP doesn't help the average person.
  
  -6
Doesn't the US count things like the excessive healthcare costs into its GDP?

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This is literally the GDP growth rate. I don’t think you know what you are talking about, but please point us to a definition of the indicator you are talking about as well as to the comparison by country.

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- I think they're comparing the 2nd derivative of GDP; the growth rate is the 1st derivative.
  
  The claim is roughly:
  
  The US is growing slowly, but doing so at a consistent pace. It will keep growing 2% indefinitely.
  
  China is growing faster now, but the rate is slowing year over year. They will grow 5% this year, 4% next year,... The implication is that they'll eventually settle domewhere below the US for (preferred boogeyman reason)
  
  Of course the premise is low value speculation, but the math concepts can be parsed.
  
  18
- It's 1 year. The rate at which it's growing is negative. If the trend continues it goes below US levels fairly soon, though it's GDP so who cares.
  
  https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
  
  -4
So do you now the word stabilization?

3