I did not know the origin of the quote

According to this the idea was coined even before WWI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

69

Can't believe Goebbels would stoop so low as plagiarism

68
- 😄👏👏
  
  5

The origin of the quote is not Goebbels.

Someone else has traced the quotation to a novel by Upton Sinclair in The Profits of Religion (do a books.google.com search for the phrase and you will find it.

In short, it is highly unlikely that Goebbels said this. As is usually the case with such quotations, no one who cites it provides a source.

Randall Bytwerk, expert in Nazi propaganda (Prof. Randall Bytwerk)

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/30683/is-if-you-have-nothing-to-hide-you-have-nothing-to-fear-a-line-used-by-joseph#40126

64

The problem with quotes from the internet is, that you cannot rely on their accuracy.

Abraham Lincoln, 1864
48
- it's true, I was his hat
  
  5
- wow that guy was really ahead of his time
  
  5
https://lemmy.world/comment/9077130

4
Eh. I still think "bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality" was said by Stalin :)

3
what i had found is the quite is most often tied to authoritarian regimes through out history and the nazi's did use the quite but had not created it

1

It really comes down to trust, or the lack thereof. People don't trust their governments and governments don't trust their people. I think this mistrust originates from governments so often being imposed on the people, rather than the government being subordinate to the people. If the government were truly subordinate to the people, I don't think privacy would be nearly as much of a concern.

35

This makes sense on the face of it, but trust is fleeting. Let's say we do establish trust in a democratically elected government and allow them to 'violate' our privacy for the common good. Who's to say the next elected representatives are just as trustworthy? If the laws and systems we create allow for violation of privacy in the long term they will be abused at some point.

32
- Well, I think there's much more to making a government subordinate to its people than just electing representatives, especially if our options for representation are limited. I'm talking about a more radical departure from the status quo, about making the people the ultimate authority.
  
  4
Is it just the government?

I am trying to think if your neighbours would rat you out to other groups.

Having seen how "the gentlemen of the press" behave, I can easily believe there are people who would guard their privacy jealously to protect themselves from the feckless bastards who are "brave crusaders for justice and freedom".

Nothing to do with the government. Nothing to do with breaking the law, or even coming close. Just because they have no desire to see their lives on the front pages of every paper and their personal lives made so much fodder for the public.

4
- Ah ha! Found Goebbel's alt acct!!
  
  -1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

This shit right here is why I'll never trust them. You'd be a fool to.

3

Vimes has always been one of my favorite characters in all media lol

26

Plowed all 41 books last year. Damn. Sometimes I'd have to put the book down and think on a thing or two. There were also a couple of times I had to put one down because I couldn't stop laughing.

Never read anything that had me in true awe of the author. Stephen King blows me away with his realistic characters and dialog, but Pratchett was next level on everything.

How could a single mind contain so much?!

19
- He was on a lot of issues waaay before the zeitgeist caught up with him. He has a whole book on trans rights in a world with codified gender norms (Monstrous Regiment) published in 2003, years before that was on anyone's radar.
  
  13

Who would you be more suspicious of? A neighbor who always keeps their blinds closed? Or the neighbor who always peeks out of their window?

21

Or the neighbor ~~who always peeks out of their window?~~ who insists that they must be allowed to stick a periscope through everyone's blinds and have a look around?

14
I dunno. I wouldn't make assumptions and would keep my wifi password secure and keep my blinds closed either way.

5
I always keep my curtains closed. But that's just because my front room is a mess and I can't be arsed tidying it.

1

If the NSA has nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear from Snowden

19

Proper uno reverse

5

Upton Sinclair also referenced a similar argument in his book The Profits of Religion, published in 1917 :

Not merely was my own mail opened, but the mail of all my relatives and friends — people residing in places as far apart as California and Florida. I recall the bland smile of a government official to whom I complained about this matter: "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear." My answer was that a study of many labor cases had taught me the methods of the agent provocateur. He is quite willing to take real evidence if he can find it; but if not, he has familiarized himself with the affairs of his victim, and can make evidence which will be convincing when exploited by the yellow press.[2]

18

my friend who is ex military, has a smart house built around amazon Alexa said he had nothing to hide, when i rebuffed with how that phrase has nazi ties he'd gone white.

propaganda is an amazingly powerful thing all you need is a catchy sentence and itll will be repeated years after.

17

Everyone closes the bathroom door when they poop.

16

youd be surprised

15
If only..

6
I've heard from some podcasts with exmormons who went on missions that closing the door wasn't done/allowed.

5
- expect any less from a cult? its a tactic in cults to strip people of privacy
  
  4

I don't know about the quote in question, but I do find it quite absurd when people still feel the need to distance the American government from the Nazis, when it is a well documented fact that the actions of the former inspired and shaped the latter with systems that either still exist in one form or another, or have left a horrific legacy (Native American reservations, the prison industrial complex, racial wealth gaps, to name a few off the top of my head).

15

Racial wealth gaps? Source?

2

I usually ask if they also shit with the door open on a public restroom, since they got nothing to hide.

13

OK so I'm a privacy advocate. I'm pro privacy, pro simplicity and accessibility for none techies. I'm pro Snowden and everything.

But,

there is no evidence for this attribution. You can often find it in reader comments and on social media with the source: “Goebbels, speech on the introduction of the GeStaPo 1933”. There was no such speech, nor was there an “Introduktion der Gestapo”, an expression that is completely unusual in German.

Edit: I actually found the interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flej-73VLW8) but can't even find the spot where he's actually making the claim seen in the picture. What the fuck is this??????

13

I think you are focusing on the wrong part of the post if that is your takeaway from it.

-7
- No if it's misinformation trying to sell a feeling rather than facts it's actually the right thing to focus on. As I said, it's not like I'm defending the argument, that you have nothing to hide yada yada, I'm not the guy that needs convincing, I'm already trying to convince others.
  
  15

Piracy is the foundation of all other rights - that's a good line.

12

Yar, now that be a truth fer all ears!

4

Uhhhh, I fucking looove Discworld! GNU Terry Pratchett.

12

Easy way to shut up any idiot: If you got nothing to hide, gimme all your passwords, also all the info on your credit cards.

10

People who say this seem so very unwilling to practice what they preach and abandon their privacy.

8

This is all in reference to the government.

Ask a person if they care about privacy from the government, you'll get most yes. Ask them if they care Google sells anonomized data about what they are searching for, and most won't give 2 fucks.

For most people they would be happy with strong protections from the government buying private data if they actually were presented the argument in a way they understood.

And that's why nobody listens to privacy advocates, this type of shit.

5

I think the only way to get privacy into the thick skulls of those that don't care is reminding them that one of the criminals can legally buy all that data in order to attempt scams or crimes against them. A very common scam in Brazil is the "cousin, my car broke and my phone died out, I need to pay the mechanic, can you do it for me?"

The other common buyer are robocallers.

2
- Nobody cares. Fraud is low. It doesn't affect people day to day. I think it's the other way around. Privacy experts need to stop screaming over this shit that doesn't actually affect most people. Your example doesn't even really use data, it just tricks them.
  
  -3

"... A great, rolling sea of evil. Shallow in some parts, yes, but deeper... oh, so much deeper in others. But men like you build these little rafts out of rules and vaguely good intentions and you say 'This is the opposite. This will triumph in the end.' Fascinating."

-Vetinari to Vimes

Paraphrased from the top of my head haha sorry if I've mucked it up. God what a character Vimes is. I do believe he also quoted guilty of thinking something like "everyone is guilty of something if you could only find out what," so maybe not a paragon of privacy in every iteration but a fantastic character nonetheless. Certainly gotta be among the best cops in fiction, considering he also nearly won a sort of people's revolution haha.

5

Just because the picture lacks quite a few pixels, I'm gonna leave this here for better legibility.

Commander Vimes didn't like the phrase 'The innocent have nothing to fear', believing the innocent had everything to fear, mostly from the guilty but in the longer term even more from those who say things like 'The innocent have nothing to fear'.

And I checked and the quote you remembered was from "Night Watch", published in 2002.

Everyone was guilty of something. Vimes knew that. Every copper knew that. That was how you maintained your authority.

But luckily Vimes isn't a fascist deep down, so it's more referring to the general psyche and not actually implying everyone is officially criminal

10
- Thanks for finding that stuff! Yeah I suppose that "everyone was guilty of something" line just didn't age well for me. You're right that Vimes is certainly no fascist, especially given the other events in Night Watch.
  
  4
- not actually implying everyone is officially criminal
  
  It's Ankh-Morpork, I think canonically only Carrot isn't a criminal in that town
  
  1
- Or, you know, click on the image, right click and say "Open in a new tab" (or just click on it again), then click on it a third time and it will open in a magnified form.
  
  Then you will be able to view it with as many pixels as you want.
  
  -2

saying that you have nothing to hide, is like saying that even though you've committed no crimes, you aren't nervous or scared, when experiencing a lawsuit for example.

It's like being put in proximity to a violent gang and not being scared because you have no ties to them.

2