Driverless Taxis Blocked Ambulance in Fatal Accident, San Francisco Fire Dept. Says
Driverless Taxis Blocked Ambulance in Fatal Accident, San Francisco Fire Dept. Says
Two Cruise taxis delayed an ambulance carrying a car accident victim to a hospital, a department report said. The company said it was not at fault.
Two Cruise driverless taxis blocked an ambulance carrying a critically injured patient who later died at a hospital, a San Francisco Fire Department report said, in another incident involving self-driving cars in the city.
On Aug. 14, two Cruise autonomous vehicles were stopped in the right two lanes of a four-lane, one-way street in the SoMa neighborhood, where the victim was found, according to the department report. It said that a police vehicle in another lane had to be moved in order for the ambulance to leave.
I think these driverless taxis are the future, but it's fucked up that a city has to put up with being the test ground.
67I don't see the benefit of driverless taxis over regular taxis. They won't be priced any lower. They won't go any faster, they'll probably go slower because they will be programmed to obey the speed limit at all times. And it will get rid of a bunch of jobs. It seems like a solution in need of a problem to me.
24It seems like a solution in need of a problem to me.
It's more like the drive to earn more profits, which is driving this (pardon the puns).
8
Tech companies aren’t forcing this on SF. SF is allowing Google and GM to test their AV and EAVs in exchange for data about their performance.
And as sad as this incident is, and as shitty as blocking first responders is, so far the AVs have not been at fault in any collisions that killed people. So they may actually be a net positive for saving lives.
21Also why was a police car blocking "another lane" I can't get to the article because of paywalls. So I am picturing a 4 lane wide one way street. The claim is that 2 driverless cars are blocking the far right lanes. The 3rd lane was blocked by an officer and the 4th was moving traffic? If so why on earth would they block the third lane instead of parking behind or in front of one if the taxis? If there is video footage in the article?
1
It is impossible to fully test things like this in test courses. Just like medicine, eventually you do all the tests you can and then expand it to the public. It sucks but there's no way to foolproof something in a lab.
11It's really wild to see all the arguments suggesting this tech get banned until it's completely ready for service. Nobody seems to think that scenario through very far. Even if it's far from perfect, this stuff is already saving lives right now.
0
The driverless cars could have drivers assigned to monitor them 24/7 either in person or remotely until they have proven themselves for say a year. Nothing is perfect but there is a lot they can do better than the current situation.
10The driverless cars could have drivers assigned to monitor them 24/7 either in person or remotely until they have proven themselves
They really need something like this, if for no other reason as to protect the vehicles from people trying to troll the AI, by quickly manipulating the road in front of them for social media filming reasons, etc.
2Pretty sure they already do have that as I've seen video from a similar incident recently where a police officer smashed the window and then some Cruise rep began talking to him over the car's stereo system.
2
Question is, are they a net positive?
They’re getting in less collisions. Autonomous vehicles in SF have only been at fault in one death. And it was a dog, and a safety driver was behind the wheel in the AV.
AVs are going have problems, but are those problems worse than the ones human drivers cause?
In order to save lives we need to study the bigger picture and not get hyper focused on individual tragedies.
32In order to save lives, USA needs to get off car centric transportation. More cars is not the solution. Neither is automating them in urban and dense environments. AVs belong on the highways only.
We are trying to solve a problem with “tech” that has been a solved problem by other countries for decades. Netherlands is a great example of how to move people around efficiently without using cars as the primary mode of transportation. Amazing public transportation. Towns and cities designed around alternative forms of transportation such as walking, or biking. Infrastructure is cheaper to maintain since it lasts longer and is not constantly pounded on by multi ton vehicles.
34Combined with e-bikes to “flatten” hills and make distance traveling easier, we could really make some amazing improvements to city design.
6I agree that the US actually needs more public transport. Fatalities aside, that’s often going to be the best solution for congestion and climate change. Congestion alone in SF is still a fucking nightmare. SF is small as fuck, but driving across that town between 3 and 7pm can take 1-2 hours.
As a local, I feel like the current state of MUNI, BART, CalTrans, AC Transit, and cycling are not going to be a good fit for EVERY single use case. If I’m injured, am carrying bulky stuff, or am trying to hit up a part of town that would take too long with public transport, an AV EV could be a good solution.
I usually try to avoid cars in SF. They’re often more trouble than they’re worth. But, there are times, IMHO, when cars solve a current route and use case better than alternative solutions. And it if they’re still going to be used for certain use cases, it would be nice if they killed fewer people.
5Driverless cars could really help solve the "last mile" issue in many transit systems.
I dislike taking transit because I have to take one unpredictable bus from my house to the train, take the train the majority of the distance, then take another unpredictable bus to my destination.
The issue of infrequent buses through neighborhoods isn't going to be solved anytime soon. But if I could take an electric driverless car from my house to the train I would be a lote more likely to take public transit over just taking my existing car.
2US will never stop using cars in the foreseeable future.
There may be an argument for major cities, but not for the rest of the nation.
That said, it's way safer driving outside of major cities. Fewer pedestrians, fewer cars, more space. It's also more efficient.
Saying "get away from cars" just screams to me that you live in a major city and think life outside of one doesn't matter.
-1
save lives
You are not saving lives by blocking emergency services.
7Thats not what hes asking. Humans are notoriously awful drivers. Does gradually replacing humans with AI drivers save more lives than unintentionally blocking an ambulance?
8Good lord.
Read what he says with your thinking cap on.
4How many drivers cause this exact thing every week? You're only hearing about this because it's novel.
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I definitely think self-driving cars are the future.
That said, we shouldn't rush and put them out before they are ready.
6Have they been rushed though? It’s been a decade of testing in public. Regulators forced AV companies to go through multiple trials with increasing levels of road density, vehicle autonomy, and fleet size. After a decade of trials and reporting safety data, SF is only now letting the general public hail an AV at any hour of the day.
2
That's correct. But we don't have the data. Musk, for example, won't release it for Tesla and forced the NHSTA to redact it.
And the raw data is no good anyway. You have to compare autopilot systems with similar road situations (eg mostly highway, or established taxi zones) and similar drivers/cars (they're not a random selection of all demographics and models).
It's absolutely correct to say that we need to compare the new with the old, not simply present statistics in isolation. But we don't have the data and it needs an established independent body to analyse it because the analysis is too easy to manipulate to leave in the hands of the companies that stand to profit.
5I completely agree with you but unfortunately public opinion doesn't always work that way. People are irrational and don't understand how numbers and statistics work. They hear 'driverless car caused fatality' and brains will just turn off.
Won't someone think of the children?!?
5
the only thing that makes driverless tech at all useful is reducing parking spots. If people don't need to own cars then cities can be built denser, be more walkable and have lower fixed infrastructure costs (less parking and parking access).
Of course they don't do any of this as well as subways and trains so its still ultimately going to only be effective as a transitional measure.
6Driverless tech is also useful due to it being safer divers then humans in most situations.
Humans are still more adaptable in completely unexpected situations, but those cases are few.
-3
Yeah, okay, they were blocking part of a road. It was a four -lane. These two were in two lanes. Sounds like a police car was blocking the rest of the road
1