Makes me laugh
Makes me laugh
Makes me laugh
Libertarians being on brand delusional
Ideologically, they’re different, but practically, they’re not.
Again, I didn't vote for Donald Trump last election, but 97% or something of conservatives did,
Yeah, I remember when the libertarians packed an entire circuit and the SC, and then rallied behind the reblican cantidate at a convention.
Take the win. We'll fight in better times. We got work to do now.
Same thing but libertarians are too embarrassed to call themselves conservatives. Or too stupid.
But I'm not a Conservative. I'm pro choice
You can be pro-choice and be a conservative. The divisions between conservative, progressive, etc. are not well-defined, strong boundaries but ideologies. In general if you profess a majority of political opinions that are opposed to your country's/locale's conservative policies then it might be hard for you to justify it. But there are pro-choice American Republicans. There are pro-LGBT American Republicans. There are even pro-democracy American Republicans (a shocker, I know).
But I'm contending that American Libertarians (as in the party, not the very vague ideological notion) are Conservatives and very close to American Republicans. They share, in effect if not in stated policy, the same stances as Republicans based on their support for bills and politicians. They are essentially just a slight white-washed versions of Republicans.
I can't remember when a Republican candidate sought the Libertarian vote. They must be getting desperate.
It's the other way around. There's a lot of overlap with conservatives and big L Libertarians over idealized "rugged individualism" fantasies. Conservatives like it because it's an excuse to continue marginalizing historically marginalized groups, and Libertarians like it because it feeds their ubermensch delusion.
So when conservatism becomes unpopular, a lot of those voters do the big L protest vote, so Republicans messaging to Libertarians is really just Republicans attempting to form ranks, not embiggen the tent.
Right but I've never seen a Republican presidential candidate actually go to their convention.
Libertarians are republicans who like weed, CMM
They are socially apathetic. To them, they think all social issues and prejudice just magically resolve. They won't necessarily condone the persecution of, say, lgbtq+ or various other minorities... But they also won't lift a finger to stop it either. Their goal is to externalize guilt and responsibility.
Generically corporate-regulation apathetic, too. They think corporations will magically do the right thing, as in not monopolize, pollute, depress wages and benefits, etc.
They want their utopia and modern conveniences but refuse to pay for any of it.
Libertarians: create a regulation to stop systemic bigotry? No, the Invisible Hand will fix that. Obviously stores that do want those customers will open.
People with functioning brains: looking at history and blinking.
No, I'm a libertarian who was for gay marriage long before it actually became reality
And are generally ok with LGBTQIA+, I think it's important to note.
Generally okay with, but are they generally OK with legislation protecting those individuals/recognizing them as protected under the same laws that protect for factors of sex and race?
"Okay" with their existence. Not with protecting them from abuse and persecution.
Which about sums up the fundamental flaw with libertarians and why they are basically chickenshit republicans.
Everyone has a right to exist. But you are on your own because I am not paying for that since I don't personally care about it
It is why the silver bullet is, and always will be, "explain how orphanages work under libertarianism"
At which point you just have people vaguely saying they support other people's rights while still wanting to pay no taxes, offer no help to anyone who doesn't directly impact them, and still want to get everything they want.
Libertarianism as a personal philosophy? You are an asshole. Libertarianism as a government? You are basically advocating for all the same shit republicans are but are too cowardly to admit what you actually want.
Oh cool like gamble with these nazis… they might not be socially toxic… generally.
Libertarians are mostly pro choice, against restricting gambling, against censorship, against mass government surveillance, against NIMBYism, for gay marriage, and trans rights. Find me a conservative that checks even half of those boxes
"The only problem with the KKK is that they smoke weed" - Jeff Sessions, allegedly
Nuance is unimportant to you, CMM
This meme just confused everyone who isn't American or doesn't follow American politics.
Especially since Libertarian as a word and definition of an ideology was co-opted by American anarcho-capitalist Murray Rothbard. Prior to that, libertarian meant freedom of will and general liberty, with some association in anarchism.
I still don't understand why you USians insist on calling them "conservatives." They're fascists - period.
There might still be some people around in the US you could call conservative with a straight face... but the last time I met one of those online was in 2012. Bernie Sanders is more of a conservative than these fascists are.
Given how much they love property rights, of sure is funny that they stole the terms "libertarian" and "anarchist" from the left. Primitive terminology accumulation, haha.
Libertarians are much friendlier with conservatives than they are with liberals, however
I remember, a forum I was part of when I was in my youth had a good number of libertarians. I was on reasonably good terms with a number of them, and thought them genuine, if misguided.
The speed at which they changed their labeling to out-and-out fascists once Trump was elected was... staggering.
That was my experience also. I had a very smart coworker, a scientist, who was libertarian, very anti-police and everything. Then Trump came along and he went full fascist. It was very disturbing, and I haven't trusted libertarians since.
Note: I'm using libertarian as shorthand for libertarian capitalist, which is mostly how it's used in the US, though, as noted in another comment, there are other kinds of libertarians, like libertarian socialists.
Its the same all over. Right-wing "libertarians" are just socially embarrassed corporate statists.
Then they weren't libertarians at all. They were randians
Would you believe there are libertarian communists? It sounds like a contradiction. Old queer couples should be able to protect their Marijuana plants with guns and pay their taxes for welfare.
Or to be more exact: "LET ME BUILD A FUCKING SHED ON MY OWN LAND. ALSO, STOP TEARING DOWN HOMELESS PEOPLES' TENTS."
All that being said, the libertarian party has taken a horrible turn and I hate being conflated with a guy who had brain worms.
Why do libertarian concerns always sound like loud petty arguments you would hear at the HOA?
There were libertarian communists. Then Murry Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises happened, and the movement was functionally hugged to death by John Birchers and other neo-confederate freaks.
Now we have the DSA, the PSL, and the Green Party.
That's more old school Spanish-flavored anarchism than American Libertarian-Communism. The Libertarian Communists actually wanted to build communes. And some of them were successful, for at least a little while. You can find small towns sprinkled all over the upper midwest and the Pacific Coast that were started as hippie communes and trans-racial utopian communities dating back to the 40s and 50s, but then got re-absorbed into the national economy over subsequent decades.
Lots of the weirder home improvement laws and residency laws came through as a response to these projects, as Good Ole Boy state governments reasserted themselves over young indie counter-culture communities.
The official LP also rejected RFK Jr. He's in with the Reform Party which was Ross Perot's old party from the 90s and also the party Donald Trump tried to run under back in... I wanna say 2000?
The modern LP (at least down in Texas) is split neatly between the Kathy Glass freaks and the Pat Dixon geeks. A bunch of disaffected reactionary goons too insurrectionist for the Bush Era Republican party on the right and a bunch of NORML loving hippie anarchists on the left. Its actually kinda beautiful to see them all come together and bag on Trump.
If you have to convince yourself that “libertarianism” is the answer, you have bigger issues than weed plants. It doesn’t matter how high they grow…
Is that a global thing for libertarians or good old American exceptionalism?
Until you get to weed and incarceration