People who started learning a second language, how has it made you aware how broken English is ?
Clarification Edit: for people who speak English natively and are learning a second language
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I don't feel it's particularly broken honestly. Some languages are more consistent with their rules and therefore easier to learn but English is surprisingly consistent in practice/sound throughout the world. You also don't need to memorize the gender of a washing machine...
I don't feel it's particularly broken honestly.
There are five (5) ways of pronouncing oo, if you people haven't added a sixth one since the last time I looked.
Radii, fiancé, and façade are apparently perfectly cromulent English words that native English speakers who've never seen an ii, an é, or a ç are supposed to be able to pronounce correctly...
Your words for food animals come from completely different and unrelated languages depending on whether the animal is alive or dead (since the people who tended to the farms and the people who actually ate their meat spoke different languages)...
There are probably more irregular verbs than regular ones... (again, probably because of English really being three different languages in a trenchcoat)...
At some point in the sixteenth century you apparently just up and decided to randomly switch the pronunciation of all your vowels... without changing how you wrote them...
While most languages have developed some form of standard and regulative body, English seems like it'd rather leave the whole grammar, orthography, pronunciation, and whatnot situation as an exercise for the victim speaker, writer, or reader...
Yeah, no, not particularly broken at all... 😒
You forgot naïve. Why does it have a fucking umlaut?????
It's a dieresis, to let you know that the i is to be pronounced separately from the a.
Are there any other words that have it though? Also if the english spelling were consistent you would not need the dieresis
The New Yorker's style guide requires markers for coöperate, coöpt, etc., but it's non-standard outside of that one particular publication.
I have seen coöperate, but it is certainly uncommon.
This would make a good t-shirt
I honestly wasn't aware naïve had a dieresis in English.
I mean, it makes complete sense for it to have one in languages that use them, but I wasn't aware it was a loanword (from French or Normand, I assume).
It's from french although naive is also a valid spelling.
Honestly it pisses me off that autocorrect adds all the beauty dots to it when I just try to write "naive"
I'm just pointing out the consistency in spoken form. Your criticisms are valid from a technical perspective, the best kind of correct...
There are five (5) ways of pronouncing oo
That's a good thing. Vowels are enormous in the range of ways they can be pronounced. Any vowel can become any other vowel before it's done being pronounced, and then you can chain that effect. You can tell where people are from by their vowels. Vowels convey analog information whereas consonants convey digital. Vowels therefore have bandwidth to carry extra information. And so not only do we have lots of vowel pair sequences with their own rules for pronunciation, we have tons of rules for how surrounding consonants change those vowels. And then finally we have all sorts of cultural understandings about how altered vowels indicate mood and intent.
It's good we don't try to pretend there are only a handful of vowels.
That's a good thing.
Nah, man. That's the abused justifying the abuser. That's pure Stockholm syndrome.
There's no world in which the oos in moon, book, door, blood, brooch, and cooperation (I had forgotten about this one. There are six. SIX! 😩) representing SIX different sounds is a good thing. There simply isn't.
A sane language would replace some of those with u, ø, ō, ô, ö, õ, whatever, make some rule so that the poor sod attempting to decipher the written word could begin to know how to pronounce it... but not English. Not English. 😞
You don't really need to memorize the gender in Spanish either. The gender is signaled by the word ending. It's a maquina; that's a feminine noun. As you're speaking you can see "maquina" coming up and arrange for the gender without having to memorize the word's gender.
Someone learning Spanish as a second language will have to remember that it's máquina and not máquino when speaking or writing it, though (and will then probably be quite confused if they ever meet some guy nicknamed El Máquina, which would somehow be a perfectly cromulent nickname in Spanish).
Confusing genders when speaking or writing is one of the most common mistakes amongst people new to the language, because while everything else has some form of rule, this doesn't (sure, when reading or listening you can most of the time use the word ending, and you'll probably have an article, too, but when you are the one speaking or writing you have no option but to just know a word's gender, or how it ends, which is the same thing).
For what it's worth, you don't memorize the gender of things. It's just difficult, when you learn another language that does it differently. And that's true for every language you learn, the difficulty lies in how it's different of your own.
I mean, you do memorise them, you just don't realise you're doing it because you're a baby or toddler and babies and toddlers are language sponges, and not very aware of how their own minds work.
When learning a gendered language as an adult you definitely have no option but to memorise what gender each word uses, since there's generally no specific rule, just how the language happened to evolve. (And this can be particularly hard if your native language is gendered, but you're trying to learn one that genders words differently, for instance when learning German coming from a Romance language, or vice versa.)
No, you don't memorize it. You memorize the words and how they sound, then based on how their endings sound, you know their gender. You don't have to maintain a dictionary of words to their gender. There are a few exceptions and you memorize those, but for the most part all you need to memorize is a few rules.
you don't memorize it. You memorize the words and how they sound
Potahto potayto. 🤷♂️
Not really. In case you’re not catching the implication, it means there is no more memorization of words’ gender in Spanish than there is in English, for instance.
You simply do not need to memorize gender as it can and is derived on the spot from other memorized info, ie the word itself.
Except many languages' vocabularies share common roots (e.g. Latin and Greek) even if the languages themselves don't, so quite often someone learning Spanish will be able to make an educated attempt at figuring out the equivalent Spanish word (for instance, an English speaker might figure out that machine ≈ máquin_)... but will have no clue about the gender, having a 50% chance of ending up with, say, máquino.
And, as I said, misgendering words seems to be a relatively common mistake for people learning Spanish without having a Romance language base.