What are some book series like Harry Potter [quaint, pleasant, deep lore] but less childish and bigoted?
What are some book series like Harry Potter [quaint, pleasant, deep lore] but less childish and bigoted?
i love asoiaf but it's hard to start rereading atm of course
Unsure about quaint but Discworld is absolutely pleasant and grows a delightful lore around itself. General advice is skip the first two (Pratchett was just figuring it out) and come back to them when you already love Rincewind.
55Second vote for Discworld
Guards! Guards!
Mort
Wyrd Sisters
Are all good places to start.
18I love the first 2 and it's where I started, I don't see anything wrong with them and I will die on that hill.
14I agree. The Colour of Magic is what got me into Discworld and I thoroughly enjoyed it as a standalone for a while.
6I really don't think they're bad or even worse than the rest. I do feel like they're so different from the other books that whether someone liked them or not doesn't tell them if they'll like the rest, which is the only reason I don't recommend it as a taster before deciding on whether to read the other 30+ tomes.
4I read the Discworld series in publication order and loved it. There was an almost continuous improvement in quality over the first few books which was also satisfying.
4Fair play! I don't think they're bad per se but I do think that the others are significantly better. I wouldn't use the first two to demonstrate why Pratchett is one of the best things to happen to the English language since punctuation.
3I'll join you there - I loved Pratchett's writing already from his Johnny series I read at school and read those first two all in one go during a summer holiday in my early teens. Great fantasy comedies.
But - I can see the argument that they're not representative of the series as a whole as it developed... not that I think Terry was probably setting out to write a massive series at the time he was writing those books. Anyway they'll always have a place in my heart.
However, it's a series that ran for decades ago I compare it to something like Doctor Who on TV where people have favourite eras or favourite stories from different era's, and those books are like the first few William Hartnell stories which are great but still have some moments that jar with what came later...
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I tried reading Mort, but it's very... dense. While I do enjoy the occasional book with flowery, descriptive language, I got a quarter of the way through it and no real plot happened.
2To each their own!
I find the overall plot is usually secondary to Pratchett using it as a means to talk about whatever. Or cracking absurdly good jokes. And while the plots can be good, Pratchett is really about the journey.
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Ah friend, may i interest you in some nice meat pies? Currently two for the price of three. Black crunchy bits included.
1The ending of “Witches Abroad” was magical:
Nanny kicked her red boots together idly. ‘Well, I suppose there’s no place like home,’ she said. ‘No,’ said Granny Weatherwax, still looking thoughtful. ‘No. There’s a billion places like home. But only one of ‘em’s where you live.’ ‘So, we’re going back?’ said Magrat. ‘Yes.’ But they went the long way, and saw the elephant.
And I just sat there, book hungover and crying for no discernible reason.
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For pleasantness and YA high fantasy vibe Le Guin's Earthsea Cycle is great.
For wizard school with a much more mature tone R.F. Kuang's Babel is a great read. Warning though it is much darker and heavier, so prepare yourself emotionally haha.
EDIT: was recommended that I give a heavier content warning to Babel which is fair. While it is thrown around as an HP alternative it is emotionally harrowing, has some extremely violent and disturbing sections, and is generally focused on depicting the horrors of colonialism. A good read, but prepare yourself going in and don’t expect it to be quaint or pleasant.
28Just to add a couple of thoughts to this.
Earthsea is often described as being rather mature despite being YA. I agree. There's a clarity and immediacy to Le Guin's writing style that cuts straight to the point while also providing clear images and characters which is combined with deep and arguably universal themes and sometimes nice allegory.
Additional to this, the series goes or progresses in surprising directions. As is so often the case, Le Guin didn't intend to write as many books as she did, but used the opportunity to do interesting or personal things with each book. While there's a continuity throughout the whole series, it's not a simple or single story but rather multiple stories with large or important intersections. You could for instance stop any time you like and not really miss out on any satisfying climactic ending.
9Tehanu was my favourite and it's so good and so different from the previous books.
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For Kuang I agree that they are generally enjoyable reads (or rather, exciting or suspenseful, I suppose) but I would strongly hesitate to put them into a recommendation looking for quaint and pleasant.
Her books go fairly detailed into gore and excesses of violence and sexual abuse, more so for her earlier works. So - good reads but come prepared.
1Yes I think Babel is a little lighter on gorey excess than the Poppy Wars (which I haven’t read but my partner has described in detail to me). Which is to be expected for books designed to depict the horrors of colonialism.
But mainly mentioning it with a content warning since it’s often tossed around as an HP replacement. I think the first half of Babel captures a similar “wonders of magic school” vibe, although with a lot more caveats about how inequitable the entire system is. It does get extremely harrowing by the end so maybe should include a clearer warning in my post.
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Less ... bigoted? Were there themes of bigotry in Harry Potter that I missed? Or are you simply looking for a better-regarded author?
25The way house elves are handled and the very stereotypical names come to mind.
22Chang aside, Finnegan’s an exceptionally awful choice. As someone only technically alive and a world away during the Troubles, I assumed it was an oversight. I have since learned just how much an English adult would have to overlook to accidentally settle on the only perceptibly Irish character (edit: other than the leprechauns) having a nasty habit of causing explosions and trying to get ahold of whiskey.
28
Brandon Sanderson Cosmere fits the bill and is super easy to get into.
The Mistborn series might fit your description the most. But my personal favorite is The Stormlight Archive. The Stormlight Archive is what got me back into reading.
What makes the Cosmere so easy and enjoyable to get into is that different series are only vaguely connected. They take place in the same universe but on different worlds or realms. But since they share the same creation "myth" there are similarities between these worlds. When getting started a lot of the connections feel more like an easter egg. An easter egg that teaches you about the history of the universe.
But each series is basically self contained. Most characters and people aren't even aware of the existance of these different worlds. The focus is mostly on the specific world. Meaning you don't have to worry about reading order or missing out. Heck, if you don't enjoy a specific series you can even skip it without losing too much.
There are a few unpublished or planned books that will focus on the connection of these worlds, on characters that travel between them. They will probably be the most enjoyable if you read everything in the Cosmere.
24Sanderson has some amazing books, but I wouldn't describe any of them as quant or pleasant. They're pretty dark.
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His Dark Materials
22I got the trilogy as a used box set recently and I really wanted to love them but just didn’t click for me. Don’t read a lot of YA now anyway so maybe missed my chance, definitely see the appeal though and think it’s a good fit for OP’s request!
4Agreed, especially now that the second trilogy is underway. Hoping the next book follows the same more mature progression and can wrap up the story in a satisfying way.
3
An obvious choice for me is The Hobbit. It hits a completely different and more adventurous feeling to LoTR, while still hinting at the lore that would follow. Sometimes I think I might prefer to LoTR in general tbh.
19The Discworld series might be what you're looking for.
19The Amber Chronicles by Zelazny
Branden Sanderson has a bunch of good series that fit the description.
12Love seeing the Chronicles of Amber get more love these days.
2
His Dark Materials aka the Golden Compass books
7Raymond E. Feist's Magician series was quite engaging, I thought... though I read it many many years ago.
7The Bartimeaus trilogy was really good
6Dunno about it being quaint/pleasant lore, but it's definitely a good and funny series
1
Percy Jackson... kind of? Still a tad childish.
4The Daevabad Trilogy by S.A. Chakraborty was very enjoyable. Still YA, but engaging throughout.
4The David Eddings books are excellent.
4I'm re-reading them again and quite like them, but OP might not - depending on what they consider bigotry and how sensitive they are. It was written in the 80s (Belgariad, anyway) and sensibilities have moved on a bit.
Especially ethnicity is very simplistic in the Belgariad - these races are mostly good, these races are mostly bad, each one has a pithy stereotype and people seem to behave more or less like theirs dictates. That seems unfortunate, but in-universe this is justified - the races really are significantly different through selection (7 gods each picked their people), breeding and religious pressure. One of the gods is the Big Bad, making for an "evil race". The story is not quite that black and white, but it's also only as complicated as needed.
I think taking it as commentary is a big mistake - at worst it's still just kinda lazy, IMO - but some people will likely get offended by it anyway. ("This will probably offend Polgara, but that's too bad. If it wasn't this, she'd just find something else.")
I would still recommend it to anyone who likes irreverent (for the 80s) High Fantasy - the story is bog standard YA Fantasy/coming-of-age etc., but then the story isn't really the point. While not Tolkien or Sanderson level worldbuilding, it certainly fits the lore part.
5Because I'm on a similar search and have never heard of Eddings, I immediately googled him and found that he and his wive spend a year in prison because the abused their adopted son. It sounds to me this is something OP would take into consideration...
2Wow, I totally missed that...
"these details did not resurface in media coverage of the couple during their successful joint career as authors, only returning to public attention several years after both had died."
She died in 2007, he died in 2009.
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I was quite a fan of the Keys to the Kingdom series by Garth Nix when I was younger. The imagery is vivid, the characters are complex/capable, and the setting is an acid trip of wide-ranging allegory and symbolism.
3If you’re looking for something less childish (or not YA) and less bigoted, I would suggest not thinking just in terms of series, but in terms of prolific authors.
People have mentioned the Discworld series, which is a series in the loosest sense of the word. They occur in the same universe and the books share characters. There’s individual storylines with min the series as well (eg the Witches books). You can start pretty much anywhere because each of the books is self-contained, and when you do stumble across, for example, the origin story of a character you liked from a novel where they were appearing as a costar, it’s always a bit more fun than if you had worried about getting all the backstories down in the first place.
I’d also recommend Neil Gaiman. His works are even less collected than Discworld, but there are commonalities and shared mythologies that make them feel coherent. Good Omens is where I’d start - it’s a feel good rom com about the antichrist and the end of the world. American Gods. Graveyard Book. The Sandman series is pretty brilliant both as a graphic novel and as a full-production audiobook. He has a ton of other work, too.
Neal Stephenson’s Baroque Trilogy is a compelling piece of pretty accurate historical fiction incorporating the great figures and events in science and politics of the 18th century (Newton, Leibniz, Hanover, the English civil war, Hooke, cryptography, natural philosophy, puritanism, capitalism, and so on). In total it runs a bit over 2000 pages. It’s not high fantasy though. It’s more like historical (science?) fiction.
3Pern might appeal.
2It might not stay with the quaint forever.
However I had a lot of fun reading the "Mage Errant" books! It's a progression Fantasy (comparable genre with shounen anime) that follows a group of students at a magic school as they grow into their powers as they attempt to become strong magic wielders.
I find the book to not only not be bigoted, but be delightfully inclusive in so many aspects, it also includes characters dealing with trauma in a positive way.
I blazed through this 7 book series like popcorn.
Other than that, there are many good suggestions here!
2The Gandalara Cycle by Randall Garrett & Vicki Ann Heydron is a fun one (available digitally on Amazon). It's a product of its time (soft misogyny comes to mind) but I don't remember anything drastically awful. Escapist fantasy.
The worldbuilding is deft, the stakes ramp up from book to book, and the story unfolds nicely to the Big Reveal in the last book. It's a quick read. Plus: giant telepathic cats.
2Martha Wells. 'Death of the Necromancer' is a stand alone. Thief and his actress mistress are on a course of vengeance, get side tracked by evil. 'The Wizard Hunters' is the first book of a follow up trilogy featuring their daughter. First book is 1890's tech plus magic, and the trilogy is WW1 level tech. Airships and ocean liners.
2The Riftwar Saga! Such a fun series that is criminally under-appreciated.
2You will be offended for your entire life if you can't separate art from artist
-5On the other hand, Rawlings uses her success as a public validation for her bigotry. So it is fair to opt out of supporting her artistry.
Secondly, bigotry is layered in her books.
- family is better than being free of abuse
- slavery is funny, also they like it
- goblins are a terrible caricature of Jewish people
- general acceptance of eugenics in daily society
11Ok there's a bit here I disagree with.
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I feel like one of the messages I got out of HP is that chosen family means more than given family. Such as when Harry gets sweater from Mrs Weasley and nothing from Dursleys
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Just because slavery exists in the story, doesn't mean it's treated positively. There's an entire revolutionary movement for them in one of the books and Hermione is active in it. And Hermione is often a pretty safe moral compass.
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No defense of the Goblins, this one is pretty bad.
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Again, just because this idea exists doesn't mean it's supported. In fact, the bad guys are the ones always supporting it so it's pretty clearly a villainous idea.
Your arguments remind me of the illiterate folk who claim that Lolita supports pedophilia when the opposite is true. Just because something is present in a story doesn't mean it's presented as a good thing, or something worth supporting.
For the record, I do not support JKR and kind of wish HP would fade into obscurity, even if it was a defining moment of my childhood/generation.
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Go back to bed, Orson Scott Card.
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