A sex education program causes controversy in Belgium. Schools are burning, the country is worried

Permanently Deleted

82

Permanently Deleted

16

Several Islamic groups have also condemned the program in a joint statement, fearing it will favor “hypersexualization” of children.

Aren't these the same people that think marrying girls at 10 years of age is fine?

76

Permanently Deleted

18
in the same way that everyone on the internet is an incel.

I say this as a person without a religious bone in my body — it's very easy when slinging around /r/atheism levels of schoolboy humor to cross into xenophobia and racism.

What, practically, is the difference between, "all Muslims are pedophiles?" and "all Jews are pedophiles?'

The latter seems like something from Lauren Bobert/MTG/Palin/Alex Jones/Tucker Carlson. So why is the former acceptable?

It honestly makes me uneasy being on Lemmy seeing the frequency of which people are quick to jump to their Islamaphobic pitchforks. Weren't we meant to be smarter than Reddit? Is it really that enlightened to suggest because someone comes from a culture they are child abusers?

11
- Not to split hairs, but how many underage girls did Jesus marry?
  
  I get that you can't paint an entire religion with a single brush. People are different. People are people. But when the prophet they revere had some very questionable takes on this topic, you have to realize that religion is fine with it.
  
  15
- What do you mean "islamophobic pitforks"? These were Islamic groups that were involved. That it's accepted in Islamic culture to wed off a girl as soon as she bleeds is no more "islamophobic" that saying the sun can give you cancer. Not everybody will hand over their daughter to be wed as soon as she bleeds, no more than the sun will give you cancer as soon as you step into it.
  Point the hypocrisy out between "she bleeds, she may be wed" and "sexual education is hypersexualisation" is not "islamophobic".
  
  You're just looking to have the moral highground. "see guys, I told that dude he's an islamophobe, where are my upvotes?"
  
  Also, not everything is globally recognized as pedophilia. Just because in your Western (American?) brain it has been taught so, doesn't mean that it is so to everybody.
  
  7
No. Islam is not one single thing. The majority of those (some of whom don't want Sex Ed in school) don't like pedophilia either (I am not saying it is a good thing to not want Sex Ed, I think that's stupid) __ And before anyone says anything, yes I understand this is part of Islamic history but it doesn't mean the whole collective of Muslims are "okay" with it, or that these people are those, that would be insane.

Edit: made my pov clearer

-2
- No, it's not part of Islamic history, it is part of Islamic theology.
  
  Most Muslims are Sunni, and within Sunni Islam there are 4 schools of jurisprudence. All four of these schools have deemed it acceptable to marry a girl off as soon as she is born, and hand her over to her rapist when she turns 9 years old or bleeds.
  
  While most Muslims are anti pedophilia, the Islamic sources and clerics are not. It is a huge problem where I'm from.
  
  17
- Nowhere did I say "All muslims are OK with marrying girls at 10 years of age". In Western culture, not everybody wants to have a heterosexual relationship, a Christian wedding, get a kid(s), a house, a pet, and send the man off to work while the wife stays at home. It is the dominant culture however. Pointing out that it is a thing, isn't judgement on every single person in every single Western country worldwide.
  
  I was pointing out hypocrisy. No need to get your panties in a bunch because in this case it involved somebody who you consider not to be in power. They are human, they can be hypocrites too. Doesn't matter if they're a minority in their country.
  
  2

Classic peaceful religions

60

If you believe in eternal torture or happiness after death, basically anything is justifiable here on Earth to bring someone to your side or prevent them from "falling" to something that would land them in the bad place. In fact it's not just justifiable but a moral imperative if you believe you can save someone an infinite amount of suffering even if you cause temporary suffering now.

26
- If someone believes in a god that implements eternal torture, they believe in a god everyone should despise, and should at least be honest about that part. Don't call it love, call it fear and terror.
  
  28
- The idea of a life after death where an idyllic eternal life can be simply purchased with belief demeans and devalues this life. You will never convince me that someone believing such things would be more moral and ethical than someone who believes that this life is all we get. I would argue that such belief is a cornerstone to a lack of ethics and morals because it implies nothing in this life really matters.
  
  21
- The violence isn't caused by the hell belief; it's institutionalized by the hell belief. Abusive, violent, hellfire religion is an institutionalization of the habits of abusive, violent parents. Get rid of the actual physical child abuse, and the violent doctrine has nothing to sustain itself.
  
  Hell is just a metaphor for how terrible it is when your parent screams at you and beats you. To a small child, while that's happening, it is eternal. You are wholly condemned, wholly guilty and judged, and no part of you is safe from pain and punishment. The doctrine of hell is religion telling you that's normal.
  
  Without hell religion, kids who are beaten by their parents might grow up to beat their own kids. Or they might get over it. Or they might not have kids at all.
  
  But under what circumstances do you get generations of kids getting beaten, growing up, having kids, and beating those kids too?
  
  That's where hell religion comes in. It tells you that the beating isn't just your parents being terrible people; it's an explicit command from God, who created the whole universe. It's not just your parents, it's how the whole world is supposed to be. And you're supposed to grow up and do it too.
  
  Hell religion tells you that it's wrong to recover from the abuse that was done to you. Stay traumatized; stay violent; put on the character armor of God and raise the rod to your own child so that they stay on the same shite-and-narrow path that you were put on.
  
  5
- Permanently Deleted
  
  0
Seems about as peaceful as BLM

-17
- Permanently Deleted
  
  6

Anyone burning down schools to "protect the children" should take a very hard look at themselves. I hope they catch the people responsible quickly.

I do fear that this will cause some more islamophobia here (and we already have plenty). The problem isn't religion per se, it's misinformation. People believe that this program would cause teachers to teach kids how to masturbate, which is obviously ridiculous.

Unfortunately, fake news is more common in certain groups. One of those groups is muslims. It's the same reason why vaccination rates are much lower among them.

It's a problem that runs very deeply and is a consequence of a failed integration approach.

49

The problem isn't religii per se

Eeehh, religions (and cultural practices based on stone age values) are a HUGE part of the problem, though, if not all of it.

You don't see progressives and atheists burning down schools. That is exclusively for the religious and the backwards.

Meanwhile these are the same people that are okay with a 40 year old man marrying a 10 year old child. I'm sorry, if I'm an Islamophobe for saying that's a problem, then I'll happily be an Islamophobe. We no longer live in the 1500's, so stop acting as if we are. You disagree, you talk. You don't cut off heads or burn down schools.

Yes, I'm quite anti religions, but islam is the worst.

And on teaching masturbation... everybody thinking that a teacher would be jacking it in from of children should think again. You can safely tell children that it's okay and normal to touch yourself (in appropriate moments) as you would touch others, and that you don't need to be ashamed of that.

34
- You don't see progressives and atheists burning down schools. That is exclusively for the religious and the backwards.
  
  Yep, never heard of a single case of atrocities done by progressive atheists in the name of what they believe in!
  
  -4
Yeah and a large cause of the integration failure is religion. If the culprits are extremist Muslims, they absolutely won't "take a hard look at themselves". They hate secular education.

19

Wtf Belgium, you’re not the United States. Chill out.

26

We arent the us, no worries :')

The problem is that extremists are everywhere and with the easy access of information, things from other places are happening here too, even if they are not applicable ( like police voilence or blm protests ). That said, fuck those extremists, whatever their background is :')

Also, this article sucks. It doesnt even explain what the new sexual education is about

31
- Permanently Deleted
  
  6
- I'm sorry... you don't think police violence and BLM are applicable in Belgium?
  
  Police violence is endemic wherever the police exist, and I find it hard to believe that racism against black & brown people isn't a problem in the place that ruled the Belgian Congo until 1960.
  
  I wonder if I just google "belgian police racism"...
  
  Oh. Oh no.
  
  2
I always saw Belgium as redneck France.

4
- it’s not a baguette, it’s a bread stick, mon ami!
  
  2

De Croo spoke just hours after a sixth school in the French-speaking Wallonia region was torched this week.

Sixth burnt school this week! Holy shit.

25

As it turns out, fundamentalists are actually terrorists.

33
Because they are educating the children! How dare they?!

21

Since I didn't immediately understand what this is about: "EVRAS" stands for "Relational, Emotional and Sexual Education" and it is a general guide for schools on how to educate school children on this matter. How many hours are advised, which topics should be talked about, etc. For example the UNESCO and the WHO research and work on EVRAS programs. But each school implements it differently, it's just a framework.

This is a summary on topics which are mentioned in the program. So it's basically a help for teachers on how to talk about that stuff:

Promoting the respect between boys and girls, women and men ;
Offering the possibility to anyone to make informed choices and to act by respecting oneself and others ;
Preparing pupils to physiologic, psychologic and social changes linked to puberty ;
Offering the possibility to everyone to get necessary aptitudes to face every aspects of sexuality and romantic relationships ;
Promoting the capacity of everyone to communicate on sexuality, emotions, relations and to acquire necessary vocabulary to be able to communicate it properly

Sources (hard to find because everyone's talking about the arsons...):

https://national-policies.eacea.ec.europa.eu/youthwiki/chapters/belgium-french-community/74-healthy-lifestyles-and-healthy-nutrition

https://journals.openedition.org/brussels/6958

19