Tesla was so swamped with complaints about driving ranges that it created a secret team to cancel owners' service appointments, source says
Tesla was so swamped with complaints about driving ranges that it created a secret team to cancel owners' service appointments, source says
To suppress the volume of complaints the automaker created a secret "Diversion Team" in Las Vegas to cancel appointments, Reuters reported.
Tesla was so swamped with complaints about driving ranges that it created a secret team to cancel owners' service appointments, source says::To suppress the volume of complaints the automaker created a secret "Diversion Team" in Las Vegas to cancel appointments, Reuters reported.
Instead of displaying the true driving range, the software provided a "rosy" projection of how far cars could drive before needing to be recharged, the report said. The distance EVs can travel before needing to be recharged is one of the main disadvantages the cars face in comparison with gas vehicles. The order to inflate the driving range displayed on the cars was given by Tesla's CEO Elon Musk around 10 years ago, according to Reuters.
If you know the true answer, but you give your customer a false answer to make your product look better than it is, there's a word for that. It's "fraud".
272Which reminds me of Apple and MS and Google and who not too...
3Counterpoint: Ive taken numerous road trips in both of our family's Tesla (Tesli?) as well as a couple loaners, and the built in navigation is always spot on with the estimates. Like it's eerie how it can predict within a percentage point on a 2 hour or more drive within the first 10 minutes of a trip.
Range anxiety really is only experienced by those that it doesn't affect (i.e. potential buyers)
-37It sounds like your talking about you put an address in gps and it gives you an accurate number.
The article is talking about it's version of a gas gauge, where it says X miles remaining, and that is what's inflated.
Trying to lie on the gps would cause more complaints as people got stranded, the fraud was lying on the "gas gauge" where it would be hard for a customer to realize they had less juice than they were being told.
108I concur, this is also my experience. The car GPS has never directed us to travel further than the charge allows--and it will include stops at superchargers on the way as necessary. It's really not that big an issue.
But, the range that it presents you in the UI is not the actual range that you can travel. The fact that the car won't plan out a route for a location 300 miles away when it claims you can travel 320, but will instead include a stop at a supercharger at around 200, kinda proves they know this.
I think the projected range is basically the platonic ideal if you were traveling in a perfectly flat landscape, with no wind, with an external temperature of 18.2°C, traveling at 37.25 miles per hour or whatever. Every deviation from that ideal will hurt your range. In my experience, I tend to get probably 250-ish miles on a 320 mile charge, depending on the time of year.
Gas vehicles tend, on the other hand, to undersell the range in my experience, and people are used to going further than the car says they can.
39Counter counter point: if the Tesla is doing fraud with the range estimate there is no need to estimate anything that precisely. Just make the software show the same number as guessed when you arrive let's say you end up with 86 km left as "estimated" at the end of the trip but in reality it's more like 42 km and the Tesla just shows something else.
15Not sure why you're being down voted. This has been my experience as well.
The remaining battery estimate given at the beginning of the trip is fairly accurate.
9Yes, if the projected range is more optimistic than reality, it’s always because I drive faster than 120-130 kph. Otherwise it’s absolutely spot on or even better than projected, for example if I drive 100-110 kph for a while.
4In Europe the manufacturers are legally bound to quote the WLTP range. Which is hopelessly inaccurate.. But nowhere near as bad as the NEDC that preceded it. Of course people still come on forums wondering why they don't get <50% more than actually possible> out of their car, and I don't blame them.. the law is an ass.
TBF to Tesla though the in-car estimate is (I think) EPA and isn't far off.. It's doable in summer, at least. Winter you'll lose 30% but that's normal for all cars.
3I think that would be "Teslae" 😉
2
Huh, I have a Niro EV and it tries pretty hard to extrapolate the range based on the current conditions, so for example if it's colder outside than the range is less (because it needs to keep the batteries warm), and if you switch on air conditioning or the heater then it immediately lowers the range to account for the extra drain. Occasionally it gets the range prediction wrong, but it really does seem to try to do its best. I just assumed that all EVs work this way.
37Driving 120km/h on the highway, upwind, uphill, airco usage all decrease your battery more than driving in ideal conditions.
The WLTP is a scam number because ( the way I see it ) it's how far your car can drive on a perfectly straight piece of road with a slight breeze from behind in the perfect temperature. Conditions which are never met in real life.
In my old diesel car the usage between 120 and 90 km/h on a highway was neglectable. It's the difference between 5.5/100km and 5.7l/100km.
Driving 90km/h on a highway vs 120 will probably easily make 100km range difference in a Tesla...
There's a button on the Tesla where you fan see the estimated range based on your current power usage as well as what you're losing power too ( acceleration/wind/uphill/... ).
I'm not defending it. It's just not as straightforward because it depends on more than your petrol car.
Tesla model 3 long-range has a WLTP of ~600km. I think the furthest I'd give it is 450-500 in summer and ~ 400-450 in winter ( on a 100% charge). Normally you'd only charge it to 90% to increase battery lifetime unless you're going on long trips.
Not to mention the power your car loses just standing on your porch...
20It's a trade-off though. My Volvo XC90 does great on the highway, but gets its range completely destroyed by stop-start traffic in the city.
Whereas my Tesla Model Y's range seems to actually increase when stuck in traffic or even just driving in the city.
5Yeah... EVs are totally built for stop-and-go traffic or city driving. For those uninitiated, everytime you slow down with a ICE car, all that kinetic energy is just being turned into heat on your break pads. Meanwhile for an EV car, that energy is then converted back into electricity to charge the battery - this is the same reason why Hybrids have so much better fuel economy. Adding to that, an ICE engine is only ~30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to energy for moving the car (the rest being turned into heat, vibrations, noise) whereas an EV is about ~70-80% efficient. You might not go as far while highway driving an EV, but it took a lot less chemical energy to take you there, meter for meter.
8
One thing to note is you didn't notice a range difference based on speed because you're dealing with larger numbers in terms all around, but you definitely had the same efficiency loss in percent when going faster
2
Won't someone think of the empty tunnel in Vegas? :(
7Sorry for party pooping the Tesla hate train, but the milage estimate when navigation is of is directly correlated to battery state of charge. Its basicly just SoC x factor. Its not dynamic, as in a Kia or BMW. The factor is calculated from officoal EPA range test. Should it be dynamic? Maybe, but you get a true estimate when you navigate to a destination anyway. This is probably done so they could market the car with certain range, same as many other manufacturers.
6This is demonstrably false. If you get a brand new Tesla and charge it to 100%, the range on the screen will be the EPA range. That’s not a “rosy” prediction, that’s the prediction that companies must legally use in their sales material in the US.
Also, the BI article says this was 10 years ago, but the Reuters article opens talking about the Model 3, which was only released 5 years ago. But it’s coming from an unnamed source who claims it was a decade ago - not exactly reliable.
-2