Reason #72151 why I don't tolerate Neelix hate

The problem, I think, is that people think Neelix is this vapid obnoxiously happy character.

Once you're a bit older or if you've been through shit, you realise he's suffering from severe trauma and mental illness, and that the whole jovial extroversion thing is often a coping mechanism. He's been through a lot, so he doesn't want others to be sad.

Far more complex than you initially think.

As someone with relatives who survived the holocaust, I recognise the type.

If people agree that Vulcans aren't superior to humans because they live longer than us why are humans superior to ocampa because we live longer than them? No one has an issue with human Vulcan relationships even though the Vulcan can be several times their partner's age. Humans might look just as naive to vulcans as ocampa do to humans

On the surface, yeah, it's pretty bad, and if Neelix was a human I wouldn't excuse it (cough cough TOM), but Talaxians had much more cultural exchange and knowledge of the Ocampa. I can criticize the writers for not properly dealing with the squick factor, but in-universe I have to give characters the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word.

Ocampans really do mature and accumulate knowledge and understanding at over ten times the rate of humans. They have passed all galactic cultural standards for being able to consent, and are granted the ability to choose for themselves. They clearly also have some telepathic abilities, so it's likely those come into play in passing on knowledge and understanding from one generation to the next, allowing them to progress through maturity exponentially faster than most other species.

And since Talaxians have cultural history with them, Neelix has enough of a rich understanding of that dynamic to make an informed choice that has nothing predatory about it.

Kes could out-maneuver almost anyone on board both intellectually and emotionally, but she also has enough gravity to not seem either fey or condescending about it. I don't see any power imbalance there. If anything she's the one taking advantage of Neelix in order to escape the drudgery of her own life. She cares for him, but it's obvious from the eventual outcome that she doesn't really see him as a life partner so much as an opportunity.

Jetrel and Mortal Coil, of course. My fav Tuvok episode is probably Meld, but mainly because I loved the plot around Suder and the actor of Suder is great in general. I've got nothing against Tuvok, but I don't really get Vulcans and their logic only attitude. It's why I thought the arc around Tuvix was interesting, but agreed, the character made a lot of folks very uncomfortable. Still, I think they should've used the transporter to "duplicate" Tuvix and devide the copy instantly back to Neelix and Tuvok. ^^

Unlike Gowron, I can forgive, but I do not forget.

@Stamets @macabrett

That only means that Kes should probably not have a relationship with anyone from a longer lifespan species.

The same way a 200 year old Vulcan would look at a 20 year old human as an immature kid. Hell, I look at a 20 year old human as immature and I'm just in my thirties!

Biological maturity does not equal getting the life experience of an adult. Not enough life experience means more naive and easier to manipulate, even if the older being doesn't want to.

It's still weird in the context of humans made the show Star Trek. I actually like Neelix and Voyager but it was still a little weird. It felt like those times the writers want to inject their fetish into the script, or like in anime there will be a 10,000 year old vampire who looks 9.

Thanks I found it.