Zelensky: Israel has ‘indisputable’ right to defend itself from terror
Zelensky: Israel has ‘indisputable’ right to defend itself from terror
Ukraine's Jewish president says world must stand united against terror as Hamas launches deadly surprise assault
Ukraine’s Jewish president says world must stand united against terror as Hamas launches deadly surprise assault
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, whose country is fending off a Russian invasion, said Saturday that Israel had an unquestionable right to defend itself from attacks from Palestinian terrorists.
The Hamas terror group launched an unprecedented assault on Israel in the morning, firing thousands of rockets, sending gunmen into Israeli communities and military bases by land, sea and air, killing at least 200 people, injuring over 1,400, and taking hostages.
“Israel’s right to defense is indisputable,” Zelensky, who is Jewish, said on Telegram.
Believe it or not, it is possible to publicly defend Ukraine, be against the long-standing brutality that Israel has dealt to Palestinians, and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history.
100Nuanced political discourse will not be tolerated on the Internet.
33It seems half decent on tildes
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Certainly, being that is possible. Acting on it is harder. Acting on it without being ripped to pieces by at least someone might be impossible.
19and also be horrified about the thousands of years of injustice that Jews have faced in history
Yes you can. And at the same time you can also condemn the illegal territorial anexations of palestinian territory by Israel. I'm part jewish myself and I don't support that crap. Just respect the internationally recognized borders and please, stop committing human rights violations (ON BOTH SIDES)
5Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:
“Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.
To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.
The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.
Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?
This isn’t good-faith criticism.
These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why
-2Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
1
And what about palestianians defending themselves form Israeli terror? Or do brown people not get that right?
Or if everything Israel is doing is "defending itself" then maybe we should let Russia "defend itself" against Ukrainian terror?
65It's a stupid article that didn't deserve reposting.
Zelensky is obviously going to take Israel's side, since Israel might actually provide Ukraine with weapons, aid, or intelligence, whereas Hamas will provide Ukraine with nothing and is aligned with Iran who are actively supplying Russia with the drones that are murdering them.
But yeah, from an analagous standpoint, Israel would be Russia who has illegally occupied the land of Palestine, and this is roughly the equivalent of Ukraine striking back at Russia in Russia's territory, though there certainly seem like far far more civilian casualties than in any of Ukraine's operations, at the same time Palestinians are also far more desperate and have face decades and decades of oppression, conditions likely to foster extremism.
71There's another way to spin the analogy, and I believe that's closer to what Zelensky had in mind.
Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets. Both recently advanced in a military invasion into the sovereign territory of Ukraine / Israel. Both kidnapped and murdered citizencs. So the analogy is Russia / Hamas vs Ukraine / Israel.
I think it's a bit weird Zelensky would ally with a country which behaves like Russia from his point of view. I agree he probably might still do it, since he needs the weapons. But given this incentive, I think the alternative analogy becomes far more appealing and convincing.
3
gunning civilians down during a music festival is "defending themselves" now? God I'm sick of people outright defending literal monsters. IDF and Hamas are both evil organisations. the people being killed on both sides are not. I cannot understand how anyone can sit here and justify killing civilians on any side for any reason.
26Thats kind of my point. Im pointing out the absurdity of claiming Israels actions are "self defence" by comparing them to Hamas' actions which are just as clearly not self defence.
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you won't believe, but that's what Russia is doing -- preemptively defending itself.
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Tbf to him, there's a significant difference between taking their own land back between Ukraine and Palestine
When Ukraine fighting back against illegal occupation they didn't purposely target the civilian while Russian is the indiscriminate one.
Hamas's goal is to take their land back while also trying to wipe Jew off the map. Them parading a woman's naked dead body tells it all, they're as savage as the Israeli that treat Palestinian as sub-human. All far right Muslim across the globe hate Jew because of what Israel does for decades.
If tomorrow Putin suddenly gave back all occupied territories including Crimea, Ukraine will stop. If tomorrow Netanyahu gave back all occupied territories, Hamas will not stop until Israel did not exists.
So yeah, for Ukraine vs Russia, one side is the terrorist. For Palestine vs Israel though, both side is terrorist.
37
32This infographic very conveniently leaves out that 1948 is the result of the Arab Israeli War, where civil war tensions resulted in several Arab nations occupying Palestine to take over Israeli land.
I'm not going to say that Israel shouldn't have given it back to the Palestinians, but it's very dishonest to leave out the war and simply say Palestinians were expelled.
1I'm not taking a side either way on this comment. I would just like to point out that Ukraine claimed their land in 1991 while Israel had theirs since 1948 (according to this image.) If you would argue that Ukraine is Ukraine because they have been since 1991 wouldn't it be even more fair to say that Israel has been Israel for even longer? If Palestine wants to take back what was theirs pre-1948 why can't Russia take back what was theirs as recently as 1991?
Coming from someone who is mostly ignorant about Palestine vs Israel politics and happy to be educated!
-2badly drawn maps are a major culprit. its clear many commenters are young and don’t know the actual history. i’m a bit surprised by just how many pro-hamas posts ive seen. its a little disturbing. read your history. there is very little that the modern state of Israel could have done to prevent any of this. these extremists want total annihilation of israel. what can israel do against terrorists whose stated goal is to participate in a holy war which they believe is their ticket to heaven? it’s an unwinnable conflict. peace talks only work if all sides actually want peace (and just disagree about how to accomplish it) every insane group of extremists across history has had to be dealt with forcefully, at some point, in some way or another, for all of human history. the japanese, germans, soviets, koreans, all needed to be dealt with, and in all cases it required overwhelming force sustained by wide coalitions over many years.
this is no different. if you are young, don’t know the history, and are sitting in your room thinking there is some special concession Israel could give, that would turn this all around, its time to hit the library. The reality is that there isn’t really any land in the area that would work for that. The available land that is compatible with human civilization in that part of the world, is completely full. There is no “amazon” that could be cut down to build new areas for Palestinians to live. It’s a hot, arid, inhospitable part of the world, and civilization is clustered around natural rivers and mountainous locations. There’s no place for anyone to go.
And then there’s the ideology. Even if Israel and some broad coalition decided to invest trillions in some massive infrastructure project to make Gaza the best place in the world to live, the terrorists would still do exactly what they’re doing today. The point you have to understand, is that Hamas does not care about Palestinians. Repeat that to yourself 10x and commit it to your brain forever. Islamic extremists do not care about achieving peaceful cooperation with people of other faiths and ideologies on planet earth. Nor do they even care about their own people.
People in the west are extremely soft and ignorant in some ways. They’ve grown up immersed in a culture of relative stability, judeo-christian ethics, etc. They have no concept that there are people out there who share none of that. They literally don’t care. And the proof is all over twitter. Go watch, let it soak in.
Only a broad coalition with massive force can end this, just like every other time. otherwise its just on an endless cycle.
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When Ukraine fighting back against illegal occupation they didn't purposely target the civilian while Russian is the indiscriminate one.
Eastern Ukrainian civilians and Russian minorities since 2014: Am I a joke to you?
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Personally, it's hard to agree with either side when there are very clearly religious motivators. Both sides have done things that are clearly wrong. It's not about people vs state, or people vs foreign state, it's always framed as Jewish vs Muslim. It's hard to imagine a future where each side does not stop until the other is wiped out. It's hard for people of different religions to live in harmony when the state is so intertwined with religion. Israel gets a lot of international support because at least they have a relatively stable government.
36I genuinely share this view, while also having doubts about it. There's still much I need to (re-)learn about this conflict, but I think both religions coexisted peacefully in that area for centuries. The current conflict might have much to do with colonialism-like European nations drawing borders in other countries, assigning people to lands, without fully considering who they are and what they want.
0
If nothing else, Zelensky knows he has to toe the American policy line. I don't blame him, really. It's self-protection.
18He has to pay back the people who got him the presidency, after all.
-35
I mean he does need those israeli anti missile shields so I get where he's coming from. But this is straight up hilarious. Israel is occupying Palestinian terriroties ilegally just like Russia is doing in Ukraine.
10Yes. Defend, not subjugate and wage and endless war on every non jew they can reach, untill they breed the next wave of violent opposition to themselves. Israel will surely continue it's impeccable record on this, and handle the civilians lives with decency and honor. I agree, Israel has a right to defend itself from terror.
9Of course it does, just like any other nation. In this case, the extreme islamists don't care about geopolitical resources like land or oil. They care about exterminating Jews. Plain and simple. If Hamas had free reign, they would execute every last person on planet earth, including you, unless you converted to Islam. It's in their ideology--dying in a holy war against non-muslims is the ticket to eternal life. That's literally what they believe. And because of that, they sew chaos and terror wherever they go.
Clearly the large majority of muslims do not believe this way. But the extremists do, and that's how history is made. The peaceful, normal civilians who'd rather just live their lives, aren't the decision makers. And of course this all traces back to a long series of stupid decisions and badly drawn maps after the world wars. But make no mistake, Hamas is no different than Nazi Germany in their desire to exterminate Jews, and eventually they will need to be dealt with in exactly the same way.
0Exactly. No issues with moderates, but moderates aren't the ones suicide-bombing and throwing suspected gays off the top of buildings. An Islamic society creates safe spaces for the extremists, and the extremists will do whatever they can to take power.
Other Muslims are the ones targeted most by Islamist extremists. It's in the Muslims' best interest that they be kept a minority and out of power. There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women's rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.
Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.
0There is insurmountable evidence that when the majority is Muslim, life gets worse for everyone, women’s rights are stripped away, and freedom of thought and religion is gone.
Quite similar to how if Scientology became mainstream we would all be worse off.
The last sentence hints both might have a common cause whis is not "being Muslim". I think it might be "being extremist". The opposite would be a pluralist society, which embraces diversity and encourages respectful coexistence and exchange.
This then also includes the rise of right-wing populists in democracies all over the world, with exactly the same consequences as you said.
3
My friend, these anti-Israel zealots won’t be happy unless Israel just rolls over and lets Hamas kill Jews without consequence.
The anti-Israel crowd thinkd Israel is the devil of it fights back.
They think Israel is the devil, if, as you mentioned, they call buildings ahead of time, and give people time to evacuate, before Israel bombs terrorist. Headquarters, because I guess they think Palestinian buildings are more important than Israeli lives.
They think Israel is the devil if they build a security fence to keep our suicide bombers.
Mostly they think Israel is the devil because Israel offered the most general peace deal in history, but refuse to give Palestinian’s the Right of Return, which would have allowed Palestinians to claim voting rights, and literally vote to turn Israel into an anti-Jewish theocracy.
Now… Most of the people HERE haven’t the foggiest clue about any of that. And if you talked them through the situation and the options, they’d understand that Israel does not now, nor have they ever had a partner on the Palestinian side with which to make peace. They want Israel gone, full stop. And you can’t make peace with people who believe in literally no situations in which you still exist at the end.
Israel, on the other hand has showed throughout it’s history that it will do extraordinary things for peace. They gave up land for peace with Egypt. They have offered extraordinary concessions.
But the people who really needed to read this downvoted me in the first paragraph and are already typing a rant.
-3yup precisely. well, im with you, and so is more than 50% of the internet i think lemmy.world world news sub seems to have a particularly high proportion of 23 year old basement dwellers who've never suffered a day in their lives
-1
Toeing the company line?
-6Not necessarily, just not fucking stupid enough to say otherwise while his own country is also fighting a defensive war against what might be considered russian terror. 101 public relations
24For him to point out the similarity of being faced with a much large occupier nation than themselves between the position of Ukranians and Palestinians, would pretty much guarantee the end of US military support to Ukraine as the US Congress has several "Friends of other country" groups of parliamentarians (how exactly is being in the parliament of one country defending the interests of a different country not treason?) for various countries, the largest of which is "Friends of Israel" and that group probably controls more than enough members of Congress to stop any future funding of military help to Ukraine.
So yeah, Zelenswky is doing the correct thing in diplomatic terms for his country, unlike many other politicians who don't act for the good of their own country.
Also lets not forget Hamas is supported by Iran, who has provided drones to Russia to kill Ukranians for over a year now, so yeah, even if he empathises with the plight of Palestinians that's a whole different thing from agreeing with Hamas.
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I thought he was on the right side of history. Looks like he took one big step to the wrong side.
-14Jewish guy defending own country against terrorists makes obvious statement in regards to situation where terrorists are being armed by the same mob the clown army of Russia are being armed by, and you think this makes him on the wrong side of history?
9Fighting against occupiers is the right side of history
Russia trying to occupy Ukraine is bad
Israel occupying Palestine, forcing the natives into shitty ghettos as they keep stealing land, is also bad
But zelensky has to keep America happy for geopolitical reasons, and America has to keep Israel happy for geopolitical reasons. And so, principle and ideals stop mattering
8Yes, standing with an apartheid state aggressor and occupier (aka Israel) is standing on the wrong side of history. It adds to the irony that Russia is doing the same to Ukraine.
Being Jewish doesn't mean it's acceptable to support Israel's "right to self defence" which doesn't mean what you may think it means. We discovered (over several decades) that Israel "defending its borders" means killing and oppressing disproportionately more civilians and children than it does killing "terrorists" and keeping Gazans in an open air prison. In essence, every country has the right to self-defence, this statement is true. However, no county has the right to commit one war crime after the other and get away with it.
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