2y ago

Anti-Semites cannot be granted German citizenship under new law - minister

www.reuters.com Anti-Semites cannot be granted German citizenship under new law - minister

A law under consideration by the German parliament would mean that people who have committed anti-Semitic acts can never be granted citizenship, German Interior Minister Nancy Faeser said on Wednesday.

World News @lemmit.online

www.reuters.com /world/europe/anti-semites-cannot-be-granted-german-citizenship-under-new-law-minister-2023-10-25/

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159 comments

How do they define "antisemitic acts"? There have been widespread protests in support of Palestinian civilians, which goes against a ban in place since the attack by Hamas. Are they going to use vague definitions to revoke citizenship for people protesting against the genocide of Palestinians?
- Nazi icons/clothing/symbols are outright banned. It's not unspecific.
  
  The statement is 100% in response to pro-Palestinian protests. They do not need to remind everyone not to be an outright Nazi.
  
  Yes, I'm aware. In theory, giving parents more control over their kid's education is good too. I'm against the Stop WOKE act though.
- Yes
  
  No, it's impossible to revoke German citizenship. Defined in article 16 GG. The only exception is treason benefitting a state the offender also holds citizenship in.

- Did you make that? Good job.
  
  Well played, Boomer

...but if you're an outright Nazi, German intelligence might have a job for you.
- Is there maybe a way to use this to revoke citizenship of all these CXU/AfD Fascists?
  
  Nope. These types of laws are never aimed at blonde and blue-eyed people... not in the west, anyway.
  
  There is not (Art. 16 GG). IIRC the only exception is the fringe case of someone having dual citizenship and enlisting to fight in a conflict involving the other country or some shit.

Already the case. To gain citizenship you generally have to have a clear criminal record, with the exception of youth offences, fines up to 90 days, and prison up to 3 month if it was on probation, unless the motive was antisemitic, racist, xenophobic, or otherwise contemptuous of humanity.
If they want to extend it to "has done something like that that wasn't illegal" then they're going to have a hard time before court as it would amount to immigration officials infringing on prerogatives of the judicature.
- Tell that to Israeli government and the NSO group destroying family values and relationships, selling spyware to the same dictatorships they claim to stand against then attempting to avoid accountability.

How are they going to detect that, a "yes/no" question?
- Per the article, past convictions.
  
  Germany now bans Germany
- They will use this law to deny citizenship to people from Palestine
  
  Likely to anyone who even feigns sympathy for them too, if German reaction to Palestinian Liberation protests are anything to go by.
  
  If they had past convictions
  
  And Ukraine I suppose
- Until the brain-scan is perfected.
- geeze get over your preconceptions about europeans, they have words for yes and no...
  yikes

Yeah, the law this vague is purposely designed to be abused by the government. German police are already trying Nazi tactics at this point. The pro Palestinian rally at Frankfurt, they literally isolated young people with Palestinian flags, took pictures of people and their ID cards, and suddenly these people now have started getting problems in their schools,universities and jobs, even when they never shared anything political themselves. Germany and Fascism is a story for the ages.
- That sounds really extreme. Do you have a reliable source for that?
  
  It's all over Twitter (or X), YouTube and TikTok. Plus, I was there in person and saw plenty but can't show due to self preservation.
- The law is pretty clear. Are you a Nazi? Don't be or else you don't get a citizenship. They already have a law against being a Nazi so this new one isn't some new law they could abuse now that they couldn't before. Stop fear mongering.
- Imagine just being an innocent person being caught up in this crap, then having literally everyone try to scapegoat you lol
- I appreciate what you're saying and I'm a little angry that people are calling you out for not providing sources. So I went and found some articles that can get us started finding out more about how the German government is treating pro-Palestinian protestors.
  Wikipedia: Nancy Faeser
  DW: Police Break up Gaza Protests
  65 Officers Hurt, 174 Detained in Berlin Protest
  Reuters: French and German Protestors Afraid
  Germany Bans Samidoun, pro-palestine group
- People attending an outlawed protest get rounded up and identified, news at 11.
  No, seriously. There have been plenty of pro-Palestine protests in Germany getting permits, there also have been plenty of pro-Palestine protests in Germany which got outlawed. The reason? Different organisers. Different capacities of those organisers to make sure that the protesters won't commit crimes. Courts overruled some of those police assessments, but not all.
  Like, people were up in arms even before all this went down that the Nakba protests in Berlin got outlawed. They completely ignored that in previous years, the same organisers held protests and those turned violent, broke out into "gas the Jews" chants, and whatnot.
  As the Basic Law says: Every German has the right to peacefully assemble without weapon. The "German" part is usually ignored, also foreigners enjoy that right in practice. The "peacefully and without weapons" part OTOH is not negotiable.
  Part of this is a cultural problem: The organisers don't seem to understand how protesting works in Germany, what the do's and don'ts are. And when they cross those lines, things get out of hand, public order is infringed upon, they try to play the victim card.
  Do you know how much German police or Germans in general care if you call us Nazis? How much that stings? I'll tell you: Zero. Because we know you're full of shit.
  
  You wrote a whole lot of words to just say that the government can do whatever. The protest on the 20th of October was specifically granted permission from the courts on the 19th, a day earlier. Half an hour before the protest, Polizei announced that it is now verboten (when? where?) and started arresting people and IDing them, the people who are unaware of changes and coming to attend a permissible demonstration. How isn't that sketchy? That seems like an operation to identify pro-Palestinian people and intimidate/harass them, and actually follow through by contacting their universities and work.
  I have been in Germany for around 2 decades as a dark skinned person, don't tell me the scope of Nazi infiltration in the German military and police. I face them everyday. It's common news among everyone, only willfully ignorant ones try to overlook it, and later will cry after their fascism gets discovered, just like from the Holocaust documentary when, German citizens were first taken to see concentration camps, and started crying "we didn't know". Ja right, gimme a break.
  
  That was cathartic to read.

Why not make that hate crimes in general?
- Minister Faeser also makes it clear: "Racism, anti-Semitism or any other form of misanthropy stand in the way of naturalization - there is zero tolerance." A clear commitment to the values of a free society should therefore be a prerequisite for naturalization. Anyone who does not share values such as the dignity and equality of all people and the equal rights of men and women, or who even acts against them, may not become a German.
  https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/kurzmeldungen/DE/2023/08/staatsangehoerigkeitsrecht_kabinett.html published 2 months ago
  
  But that's already in the law. Unless the idea is to throw the Rechtsstaat out of the window and remove the requirement that people have the right to a fair trial.
- Because that's already in the law:
  Sentence 1 does not apply if the foreigner was convicted of an antisemitic, racist or xenophobic offence, or other criminal offence evidencing contempt for humanity as referred to in section 46 (2) sentence 2 of the Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch) and sentenced to a prison term, fine or youth custody and the court judgment found that the offence was based on such a motive.
  This is 100% performative bullshit.

Define anti semite
- Not kissing Israel's ass presumably
  
  Israel is objectively in the right in the war but I'm afraid that defining anti semite could mean anyone they don't like
- Showing off Nazi symbols. Which already is illegal
- You dislike jews because they are jews.
  A seven year old could figure that out, or shit, read wikipedia idk...
  
  They are asking which way the minister wants to define the term.

So no Netanyahu?

Germany actively boots out and leashes nazis, while Israel elects them to office, parties with them, names districts after them, and permits them visits to the Kotel.
💀💀💀💀💀
Wild times.
- We need sources please
  
  Israel literally named a settlement in the Golan Heights after fffking Trump.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrumpHeights
  After Bibi had wine and cheese with him. Fukem both.

They can keep their own Nazis, just not have new extra foreigners.

Deal with it. If you want to make out with Hamas ,do it without german citizenship.
- It was about time. All those diehard Erdoğan fans for example are pretty antisemitic in my experience.

So its bad when Nazi's kill people indiscriminately, but when Jews do it to Palestinians that's totally fine?

They can be elected president in this country.
- I guess that's the USA, the default country?
- I'm pretty sure you mean the Un-United Shithole of America a.k.a the united states of america
  Please be aware that people besides you won't he aware of the country you are talking about and me and the other person replying to you are only assuming you are talking about the usa unless you want to edit your comment and say what country you are talking about

This is a way to spin being able to remove organize citizenship to those who are supportive of Palestine or critical of Israel, and paint them as enemies of peace. This is Germany bringing back old traditions from the 40s.

I’m afraid the call is coming from inside the house in this case.

Antideutsch out in force I see.

Such a law is a prudent and necessary measure to ensure the stability and security of Germany. We cannot afford to allow individuals who may pose a threat to to become citizens. Europe must be vigilant in protecting its interests and ensuring the loyalty of its inhabitants. Anti-semitism, subversion and dissent must not be tolerated, as they can lead to chaos and rebellion. I fully support this law to maintain the strength and unity of Germany.
- Why does this scream gpt.
  
  Cause a German probably wrote it.
- Sounds like something people in Germany might have said back in 1936...
- and dissent must not be tolerated, as they can lead to chaos and rebellion
  The party is always right
- Poe's Law moment. If you tell me you're parodying the slow descent into fascism, I'll believe you. If you tell me you unironically believe this instead, I'll believe you as well.
  
  It's parody/satire, that's their entire account. Sheev P refers to sheev palpetine.
- And how would Germany remain vigilant? The article gives exactly zero information about how Germany will adjudicate anti-semitism.
  All in all, it sounds pretty disastrous for people's rights.
- You sound like chatgpt.

Why is it necessary to enact such a law in a foreign country? Germany isn't even on the same continent.
- Yeah since when germany has had problems with antisemitism?
  
  This is in response to Middle Eastern support for Palestine. Germany (and the EU) are in the midst of a migrant crisis (Migrationpolitik) and the general European populace is by default fairly Islamophobic.

I wondet if there will be a point when German people will decide to take bavk their auto-determination from the hands of Israel. They're acting like a colony, pretty pathetic for an european country if you ask me.
- That's never going to happen. Because of Holocaust guilt Germany has to cuck itself for Israel indefinitely.
- Hamas is all about blood and soil and killing Jews. You may want to continue pretending they're a scrappy band of freedom fighters but that's only because you're stuck in an information silo. At this point people that support Hamas are anti-semitic, there's no way to rationalize out support for an organization that purposefully murders Jewish children. It's just pure anti-semitism, the mask is gone now.
  
  Am I Islamophobic because I criticize Saudi Arabia?
  This tautology allows accusations of antisemitism to be weaponized, particularly against people who speak up about Palestinian rights — sometimes in ridiculous ways
  Stop weaponizing antisemitism. It makes you seem trite.
  
  I think you’ll find the majority of us are against both Israel and Hamas, instead siding with Palestinians.
  
  I don't think people here are supporting Hamas, but guess what, most probably Israel has killed way more children and babies than Hamas.
  But we cannot call people who support the current government of Israel as anti-humanists, as we will automatically be called anti-Semites.
  Do you see now where the problem stands, it boils down to your double standards, where you say civilian lives matter only on one side of the conflict and your refusal to admit that the other side is even more complicit.
  And as Antonio Gutierrez said those killings are not happening in a vacuum. Palestinians are subject to years of repression by various Israelian governments.
  And I don't hate Jews, I know some and most of them are great human beings. But I also happen to know some Arabs and even Palestinians who are also great people. I don't condemn or generalise people based on their religion or ethnicity. I condemn people based on their actions and reactions.
  
  What's also important to remember is that huge amounts of money floods into Palestine from antisemitic Arab countries like Iran, all the training and materials to build tunnels and rockets and organize scuba and paraglider attacks - that's not given to help people, they could take all those people out and build them a city for a fraction of the cost of the conflict - but of course they won't do that, they don't want to help the people they want the people there and suffering as a justification for the conflict.
  The people controlling the anti Israel side have no desire for a friendly solution, certainly in Iran the recent protests and other issues put them in a situation were having an enemy to rally against is exactly what they need.
  When people act like Israel should just stop fighting Palestine it totally ignores the reality that the second they drop security measures they'll get attacked, attacks funded by people that would hate to see Palestinians and Jews working together and being friends.
  
  Both things can be true at the same time. They're freedom fighters and terrorists.

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