1y ago

Dragon's Dogma 2 MTX

So there's obviously been a lot of existing discourse on DD2's micro transactions, and I'm curious to get the thoughts of people here.

I haven't played the game yet, but the consensus I've gotten is that the MTXs are largely meaningless because they're so easy to get in-game, but if they weren't so easy to get they would be outrageous. It seems there's some amount of counter-backlash defending the game saying that those who are upset just don't understand how easy it is to get those things in-game.

Personally, I don't think Capcom is dumb; my money would be that they wanted to test the waters to see what player response would be to these types of transactions, or that they would want to (quietly) adjust how easy they are to get in-game later on.

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If the mtx is meaningless because you can get it easily in game, then it is predatory as it is intended to be purchased by people who are not aware that they can earn it in game. That strikes me as worse than mtx that is required to do something they can't without it, because it preys on people's lack of information and they aren't making an informed choice.
- You encounter the merchant where you can buy the MTX stuff in the first few hours of the game. You can't even use the majority of them before reaching that point.
  I would honestly bet money that they'd designed the game to not have microtransactions, then some executive at the 11th hour told them to find a way to include them, and they made them inconsequential as a sort of malicious compliance. Not that I think it's OK to have them in the first place, it really soured me on the game initially. I think it's considerably worse for including them, but they are completely meaningless.
- There isn't a lack of information. They've been very public on what this is.

Hate it hate it. This game is so good, and it's like I'm playing my old favorite again. The fact that they marred my baby with MTX like this is just gross. DD1 should be more popular, and what they did to DD2 may keep it from being the powerhouse it could because people will see the "mixed" ratings and second guess. Or they'll open the store page and see a wall of MTX and get the wrong idea.
But that's just part of it of course. If this works for them, it'll explode. And it will work for them. And everyone will get these fucking MTX in their full priced AAA games. And then once sales on MTX aren't up to snuff -- or if they are up to snuff, but in a few quarters when sales are merely consistent rather than continuing to grow -- they'll start pushing it. Just like they did with Shadow of Mordor where the gameplay gave you a nasty grind and a quick "buy your way past it" option.
I'll never buy the "it doesn't effect you in a single player game" argument. It will, because the market incentives a worse experience for those less willing to buy in.
- DD1 already was full of microtransactions, but in the sequel they "ruin" the game? What changed for you?
  
  The MTX were removed for DD:DA.
  Only the original release of the game on Ps3 and 360 had the mtx. So in a way they improved things only to shit it up again.
  
  Huh. Did it??
  https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/comments/1bktrh3/are_we_forgetting_that_dd1_had_microtransactions/
  Here's someone corroborating you, but it's impossible to Google at the moment for obvious reasons. I have 0 recollection of any MTX, though. FWIW, it wouldn't be any less bad if they did it before too.
  To be clear though, it didn't ruin it. I said it "marred" the game. It is a mark that affects how the game is perceived and I hate that. The game itself is fun, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

It's the same type of microtransactions that they had in Resident Evil 4 Remake, so it's probably not so much a test as a limit they found where backlash is small enough that it still makes sense. But there are 2 big differences with Dragon's Dogma 2.
They fucked up the PC port.
They increased the base game price.
Anyone that tries to justify microtransactions in a paid game is a moron. They were literally introduced in free to play games to finance the game development. In paid game, it's just pure greed.
- I mean also it just seems like a case of normalization. You start out with slow meaningless MTX then you move it more and more. Hell its a bit odd since I'm glad there was some outrage over the MTX in this game but as you said its most likely due to the increase to $70 usd which is a slap in the face to deal with MTX in a fucking single player game but Capcom is one of the shittiest companies when it comes to dumb/pointless MTX.
  Monster Hunter, Devil may cry, Dead Rising, and Resident Evil all have this kind of shit with very little peeps about it. So you basically hit the nail on the head on this on why there was such a big outrage this time around. Also I'm really surprised fucking Street Fighter doesn't, the literal poster child of pointless/odd additions which in a funny way has actually only gotten better in the digital age. I'm not a big fighting game fan but season passes have sort of solved having so many fucking editions of a single game. Like holy shit there were 5 fucking versions of Street Fighter 2 in a span of 3 years. 3 versions of SF3 in 3 years.
  Edit: marked by bold, I was tired when writing this comment and seems I just forgot to finish my full thought before posting.

I am against MTX because they have put parents in debt when their children have racked up huge MTX bills and it's very difficult/impossible to get refunds. Yes, parents can protect themselves against this but many parents are not particularly tech savvy and games companies will see these as potentially huge revenue streams and abuse the hell out of them... like EPIC did.
Also, gaming addicts should also be considered and potential routes to indebtedness avoided.
Knowing a game has MTX just makes me less likely to buy it. Price the game correctly in the first place, and offer DLCs if you want some extra revenue.

As far as I've heard, previous Capcom games already feature these types of mostly meaningless DLC. So it's not a first test, and so far the older games haven't been adjusted to make the microtransactions more appealing.
I agree, Capcom aren't dumb, it's probably just a minimal amount of work, and if they can get even a few buyers they make money. Although, who knows if the hit to their reputations negates all of this.
- Yes, all of their games in the past few years or so have DLCs like that. What I'm actually worried about is some of their games the MTX aren't irrelevant like these. Monster Hunter has been getting more and more of these with each new release since World and I'm scared of what they'll do with Wilds.

The whole thing is a storm in a teacup. I’m level 40 in the game and have not once felt the need to even LOOK at the MTX store. The game is complete; the MTX are there if you’re too lazy to be bothered using the in-game travel mechanics. Simple as that.
- idk, I think there's more to it than that.
  This is another layer of "horse armor MTX", now with selling pay-to-win features in AAA single-player games. In this case, the first (early?) time it's been done, it's "mild", but it's a step in the wrong direction.
  I don't like "slippery slope" arguments, in general, but it doesn't cost me anything to boycott this game for having P2W MTX in a full-priced single-player game. If enough people agree, that might send the message to the industry that nickel and diming their customers isn't a good business model.
  Edit: Also, not including the MTX in review copies is egregiously sleazy since they were hiding it. Customers couldn't make an informed decision (and their review scores are inflated).
  
  In this case, the first (early?) time it's been done, it's "mild", but it's a step in the wrong direction.
  It's certainly not the first time, capcom did this. I remember them in DMC 4 and 5 and they were in DD1 as well but so inconsequential that everyone has forgotten. I think capcom just requires their devs to add them but the devs only do malicious compliance. I dislike capcom for it as it preys on uninformed people but like the devs for not making them actually required or designing the game around them.
- I was also confused at first by the controversy, because I'd been playing for like 20+ hours and I was like "What microtransactions?" Then I checked the main menu and sure enough there's an "online store" option, which I guess I had just thought was for upgrading to the deluxe edition or buying expansions or whatever. I guess they're selling rift crystals or ferry stones or something? IDK I still haven't bothered opening it.
  DD1 didn't have any MTX right? I think I expected it to since "rift crystals" absolutely sound like some kind of premium currency bullshit, but I don't remember any actual way to buy them. That's about the only thing I think makes the outrage make sense, it sucks for corporations to start adding shit like that to a series that didn't have it before and I'd be worried about DD3 in the future being even more upfront with them.

the consensus I’ve gotten is that the MTXs are largely meaningless because they’re so easy to get in-game
I would push back on this a bit. Some of these items are easy to acquire small quantities of, but are not available in infinite amounts, such as (as far as I know) the fast travel tokens. I am 20-ish hours in, and I think I have 8 fast travel tokens, which means that I really just don't use them, and hoard them for emergencies.
Convenience is addictive, and people absolutely will have trouble not pouring tens or hundreds of dollars into MTX once they get a taste of the convenience it offers. Ask ESO users how many don't have ESO Plus; it's incredibly common to have, because it gives you free fast travel and a dedicated, infinite inventory for crafting materials. It's weaponized convenience.
Other items in DD2 I've used CheatEngine to dupe, but I think most people (and obviously, no one on console) aren't going to be able to figure out hex editors, and shouldn't have to.
- So there's fast travel tokens but you can get to most places by Oxcart for very cheap. The ferrystones also get more common as you go and I've never had a lack of them. I just finished the game yesterday and have not felt the game design being influenced by micro transactions.

I'm less upset by what the MTX is or that it's there in a seventy dollar single player game, than I am that they did not disclose it would even have MTX until the day it launched.
If it has been known before hand, I wouldn't have really cared too much. RE4 has the same kind of MTX, it does not affect the game, but it was also known before launch that it would have it.
- Tbf this kind of bullshit useless mtx has been in probably every capcom game for a while now so it was expected on my end. I hate that capcom forces the devs to include them but every game I've played that had them they were useless and the devs were only doing malicious compliance.

This isn't microtransactions as they are usually implemented.
You have access to all of the content in the game for the sticker price, and that's all that matters to me.

It’s less that they’re easy to get without buying them with real money and more that they’re supposed to be acquired slowly and, when relevant, used sparingly.
My frustration with the discourse is that so many who see the game’s general lack of convenience see that through the filter of these microtransactions and assume ill intent on part of the actual game design when really it’s just genuinely idiosyncratic like the original was.
The truth is, if you’re the sort to be tempted by these purchases in the first place then you’re not the sort of person who would enjoy the game even if you do buy them. I don’t know whether that makes them better or worse, honestly, but if you buy the game it at least doesn’t rub your nose in them like Assassin’s Creed.

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