Exclusive: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say

That's fair. The reasoning is sound, I can certainly understand ByteDance's intention to keep the details of their algorithm a secret no matter what, but it's always a good idea to take any leak with a grain of salt.

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There's always a back and forth between a government respecting personal freedoms and their responsibility to protect it's people.

There are justified limitations on personal freedoms and unjustified ones. For the classic example, yelling fire in a movie theater. That is a crime because it can cause people to get harmed. It is only a minor infringement on speech, therefore the benefits outweigh the infringement.

Every single time we infringe on personal freedoms, we need to do this calculation.

So there are 3 main justifications for this TikTok ban.

A) stop Chinese data collection. I think this is just misdirection. You say it's conspiracy, but just like the PATRIOT Act had nothing to do with patriotism or protecting children and the Iraqi war had nothing to do with WMD... the government often misleads or outright lies.

Much of our data is for sale to anyone who wants to buy it. In fact, our law enforcement loves buying data instead of going through the process for a warrant.

There are so many apps out there with less than scrupulous devs who are more than willing to scrape for as much data as possible and sell that off. China can easily acquire massive amounts of data regardless.

2. stop Chinese influence on Americans. I think this one makes more sense than the first one. China is able to quietly suppress or encourage certain points of views - subtly pushing the 170 million Americans into directions that are beneficial for China's interests. For example, perhaps media discouraging support for Taiwan.

3. connected to 2, by banning TikTok the US leaves only the main tech companies which have a proven track record of cooperating with the federal government. Not only in criminal cases but suppressing and amplifying specific types of media.

So what are benefits? US has better control of the digital media landscape. Cost? Americans are being restricting from accessing media they would otherwise access.

I don't see this as a worthwhile exchange. I think federal government should stay out of the media space. I believe this because we are a free society.

You are right that we don't always live up to that term, and never really have. But we get a hell of a lot closer than China or Russia. We shouldn't be moving towards them in ideological terms, but away from them.

As for the young people, there are 170 million people on the app and it skews younger. A large portion of these people use Tiktok as their primary social media. A lot of these will be pushed towards anti-establishment and radical ideologies. Tiktok already leans leftist (and not neoliberal left).

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

what is and isn't acceptable speech

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

The courts have repeatedly ruled that freedom of speech comes with freedom of association.

Montana tried banning TikTok and a judge blocked it for that reason - it infringes upon free speech. I think Bytedance will likely sue federal government under similar grounds. The government cannot arbritarily control what you want to say, who you want to say it to, or where you want to say it.

The Supreme Court has long held that the First Amendment's protection of free speech, assembly, and petition logically extends to include a “freedom of association."

It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the 'liberty' assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech. Of course, it is immaterial whether the beliefs sought to be advanced by association pertain to political, economic, religious or cultural matters, and state action which may have the effect of curtailing the freedom to associate is subject to the closest scrutiny.

It appears from the Court's opinions that the right of association is derivative from the First Amendment guarantees of speech, assembly, and petition,2 although it has at times been referred to as an independent freedom protected by the First Amendment.

It's not about data. It's about broadcast content curation (i.e. the TikTok algorithm and how it might be used to change US policy by presenting a very pro-China narrative).

Citizens of the United States have a right to free speech and curation of speech within the United States. Foreign governments do not have this right and having foreign governments directly control the dissemination of information poses a real and active risk (https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf).

This is a principle that's been applied to traditional broadcast media for decades. It just hasn't applied to the Internet.

Data privacy laws would be great and we should be worried about how data is being used but, writing good data privacy laws wouldn't resolve the major issue here.

I don't use Tiktok and never have. I view it more a matter of principle.

China is an authoritarian state. We should not imitate them. Unfortunately I think Zizek was right when he said China's model is the most effective form of capitalism and predicted that all liberal democracies would eventually converge into a version of that system.

This is what you embrace with open arms. Do you not care about being able to access whatever media you want?

I appreciate your comment but let me ask you. Are you OK with the federal government getting to decide what is appropriate for you to read or watch?

I read the 3 body problem novel series and it was by a Chinese author. I loved the series and it dealt with a lot of interesting science fiction concepts.

Do you think that it should be banned? What if it's subtly influencing Americans through propaganda?

I think it's amusing how you call me wumao, feeling proud of how clever you are, while advocating for the US to emulate China.