A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines
Speaking for myself: Summary I propose changing our Steering Council election process from simple approval voting to a ranked choice system to better capture voter preferences and provide more meaningful feedback to candidates. I want your input to know if this is worth pursuing. Background Our PE...
Original comment:
I don’t know much about voting systems, but I know someone who does. Unfortunately he’s currently banned. Maybe we can wait until his 3-month ban expires and ask him for advice?
Imagine running Guido out of his own fucking project
32It looks like one comment was temporarily hidden, by an automod I'm guessing. That hardly qualifies as "running someone out". He even continues to engage in the discussion a few comments later.
21He's not being run out of the project... yet. This is not a good direction, though. This comes across as the first link that'll show up in a github gist of "What happened to Python?" in a few years. Hopefully not and it's all just an automod mixup, but after the Tim Peters btfo, I know what I'd put my money on.
-3
Imagine running Guido out of his own fucking project
Imagine running Guido out of Python and still have the gall to argue they are acting on Python's best interests.
What a bunch of self-serving fools.
12Well, in fairness imagine if Guido did become a racist sexist arsehole. I don't think he should be immune.
But clearly this situation is not right.
7I may be too far from Python to tell, but it looks kind of incorrect to equate the author and their product. What if Guido decides to stop contributing, will Python end then? Creators of Rust spoken about the fact that Rust went very much not the way they wanted it to, this doesn't make them not creators, nor does it make Rust not Rust
3
Searching some of these Python Community discussions separately and reading how they handled these bumps in the road as a group has actually increased my confidence in that group as a whole:
https://discuss.python.org/t/three-month-suspension-for-a-core-developer/60250
https://discuss.python.org/t/calling-for-a-vote-of-no-confidence/61557
On the other hand, the three month suspension of Tim Peters that started it all and how that was handled sounds problematic (the second half of the essay addresses each point from the original banning rationale in detail):
https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestration-of-tim
Finally, Chris McDonough (the author of the above article) drawing attention to valid criticism of his own defense of Tim Peters is a blueberry on top of the cherry on the cake:
https://chattingdarkly.org/@chrism/113020098915125686
I hope the community ends up stronger as a result of this.
20valid criticism of his own defense
To be clear that post makes a valid point (don't defend people just because they seem nice or dedicated or whatever), but it isn't a valid criticism of Chris's post because he didn't do that.
He did say Tim is nice and dedicated etc. etc. but he also went through the specific crimes that Tim was supposed to have committed and refuted them.
I read a load of Tim's comments and this was definitely a case of the CoC people getting annoyed with someone who disagreed with them and wouldn't give up. There wasn't anything remotely ban-worthy.
18"Dismissing unacceptable behavior of others as a 'neurodivergent' trait, which is problematic because it creates a stereotype that neurodivergent people are hard to interact with and need special treatment.
I'll show you how difficult it is to work with neurodivergent people!
/* SLAMS BAN HAMMER /*
7
Boy, does that group sound like the ultimate bunch of social climbers trying to make a living out of someone else's work.
11I think that's a little too simplistic. I definitely agree that "we can't show you the evidence of why we made this decision but trust us" isn't going to instill confidence in the community, but it's not like the steering council is some unrelated board of executives. They're all core developers, theoretically chosen for their dedication and contributions to Python as a whole, and it seems their granted power has made them anxious about showing favoritism among the most seasoned at the expense of upholding the community guidelines that keep the Python community a positive and welcoming place.
I think a flawed decision was made, or at least the way it was presented was flawed, and that should be considered for the next election. Maybe the council does need to be totally overhauled, that's a valid position. But this is their work, too, and imply they have no skin in the game is disingenuous.
10Interesting perspective. It implies that:
- The value of their policy work is significantly below the technical community's contributions value
- There is perceived status to be gained by climbing this particular social ladder.
I neither agree or disagree fully, but I believe there is value in good governance of large and diverse projects.
Whether their governance is good is what this whole kerfuffle is all about.
7
The post is still there.
15The Wayback Machine shows it was missing at one point.
Hard to say why exactly it was hidden, but it's a bad look for sure.
9Probably an automod or something. It mentioned a banned user, which sounds like something an automoderator would auto-remove (i.e. people making alts or something to complain about bans).
5
At this rate in a month there's gonna be a python fork, with blackjack, and hookers
(Futurama reference)
15Shoulda stayed BDFL lol. Who tf are these nerds banning everyone?
14Banning/hiding that is ridiculous and a quick way to lose any credibility the community rules might have left.
10Lol, first Tim Peters and now Guido.
Edit: oh LOL2, now I see Guido's comment at the top of this thread, and in case it went past anyone, it was a reference to Tim Peters.
8Can someone pls explain for us normies
7The Python steering committee bans Tim Peters, a Python core developer, for 3 months. In an unrelated discussion, someone proposed a new election system for the steering committee. Then the creator of Python insinuated through a comment in the post suggesting why not we ask for an opinion from an expert that he knows, but we need to wait a bit as he's been banned. OP claims this comment has been removed, but may be it's been reinstated as it's still there last time I check.
edited: some grammar typos, and edit some words for clearer context.
20The simplest explanation is that an automod action was triggered on the word "banned," and then a mod manually reinstated it. Until I hear further, that's what I'm going to assume happened.
5
The bureaucrats have taken control!
This is real Soviet style reality denial.
3guess its time for Guido to make a new software project, maybe call it Monty.
With blackjack, and hook.....
7I already helped build a language Monte based on Python and E. Guido isn't invited, because he doesn't understand capabilities; I've had dinner with him before, and he's a nice guy but not really deep into theory.
0