E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space - Liliputing
E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space - Liliputing
E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/19284817
More and better e-ink, please. It's just the best at the things it's good at. Give me a foldable phone with one e-ink screen!
137"E Ink" is a company, producing displays with a very specific proprietary technology. I think you mean to say more "e-paper", which is a generic term for "paper-like" displays. And unfortunately, right now the only real competition is RLCD (reflective LCD), which is arguably not paper-like enough to qualify. Yes, it's reflective, but other than that, it's just a higher density Game Boy screen. Which is great and all, but it can't compete with E Ink in a lot of aspects. It doesn't have retention, you gotta power the screen, so no signage and stuff. It has LCD-grade bad viewing angles.
RLCDs are cool for certain uses though. For example, I sometimes choose to play on my AGS-001 over my Analogue Pocket if I'm outside in bright daylight.
48It will be so cool when that patent expires
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I wish they made more e-ink watches
32I'd love a successor to Pebble which doesn't require an account. There are a number of options, but my issue is that most require creating an account with vendor, and app integration with - no doubt - copiuos data harvesting and reselling. Many are absurdly expensive.
There are several cheap options on Alibaba.
Goodreader.com lists a number of expensive e-ink watches, some of which look quite nice.
But I've got my eye on Watchy (github, old review); it was introduced a couple of years ago and is still being updated. It's also available from a couple of vendors, including preassembled through Amazon.
26I switched to garmin because of the transflective LCD. So much better than AMOLED for a watch. But e-paper would definitely be nice, too (if I didn't use active maps when backpacking).
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and generally aren’t very useful for high-motion graphics like videos or games.
I do like the fact that my e-reader is just for reading books without distractions. Thats also kinda the point of e-ink, to be as close to paper as possible and make digital reading better. I don't see the need yet for a paper like screen to animate video because it won't be as good as a normal screen. I'll prefer specialized screens over a catch-all type any day.
70I mostly agree, but it would be nice if it was a bit faster to be able to use it for web browsing. I still like reading long form articles and such but navigating and scrolling isn't very viable yet on e-readers.
10EinkBro lets you treat sites (or the reader mode) like pages and turn them accordingly. My boox go color 7 also has page turn buttons, and allows you to configure them to scroll x distance on a per app basis, which works like a page turn on apps that only allow scrolling. It makes reading articles with omnivore work pretty well. Example And switching to speed mode
I'm not sure if you can easily make the same tweaks on the other Boox devices or using volume buttons on other Android devices or whatever, but there are ways around it.
I definitely do agree with you that the capability of faster refresh would be nice to have, but right now isn't bad.
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This article has completely missed a selling point of e-readers for people like myself: no constant refreshing.
My eye strain, when reading for a long time, doesn't come from the light (or lack thereof), which is evident as a positive of backlit Kindles and other e-readers, though the constant flicker of screens. E-ink solves this issue perfectly, and with every device in that article mentioning "60Hz" on their alternatives I feel as though they've missed a big point of having an e-reader and what exactly constitutes as "paper like" (it's a lot more than just "low/no backlight").
59Another point (which is a result of not refreshing the screen) which the article misses is power consumption. I can use my reader for several weeks without recharging.
28Yeah, there's a reason people prefer Kindle e-ink type e-readers to just using a tablet like a Kindle Fire, even if the latter can do more stuff
8backlit Kindles
As I understand it, Kindles aren’t backlit but rather frontlit (or sidelit) with a layer designed to diffuse the light across the page evenly. The claim is that the lack of direct lighting helps in the fight against eye strain as well.
3Are you talking about pwm? Most screens don't refresh if nothing is changing
-4This isn't technically correct. CRT, LCD, and OLED displays are generally constantly refreshing the image. There are some niche exceptions like memory-in-pixel displays but they are few and far between. eInk displays are very different in this aspect because the display itself acts as a physical memory of the image because its mechanism of creating an image involves physical changes (pigmented particles moving closer or further away from the visible plane).
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It would be neat to compare these new reflective LCDs with the 25-year-old ones used in the Game Boy Color.
30Hot take, but the original GBA had one of the nicest reflective LCDs ever. I'd even prefer it over the SP in most (well lit) cases.
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Reflective LCD, like my palm pilot used? I didn't think we would see those make a comeback.
22It is almost as if there has been about 2 decades of technological development since you last used that kind of tech.
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The article is a bit vague on the pros and cons of reflective LCD screens.
It seems to be pros that it has a good refresh rate, can be used without a backlight so is good outdoors and indoors in a bright room, and maybe better for your eyes due to the lack of the backlight/blue spectrum light. It also may offer better colour depth than e-ink currently.
The cons are not clearly addressed but presumably battery life is worse than e-ink but better than a backlit display such as OLED or AMOLED, that colours are still not as good as other LCDs even if better than e-ink, and it seems cost (although that may be due to the small market at present).
Also there is no obvious innovation noted in the article so its not clear what has changed about these displays? It sounds more like some small companies are just using the displays in a new way to try and mimick paper. But maybe thats wrong or will change?
Maybe this would compete with e-ink if cost comes down. The battery benefit of e-ink with a static image is one of its big benefits, to the point that its being used for shelf labels in supermarkets. E-ink isn't going anywhere but good to have more choices in the tablet space.
19Backlit OLED? You may be thinking of
QLERQLED because OLED is self emissive9I think what he means is emissive in general. OLED, LCD, whatever, all are powering through ambient light, so need really high brightness in high lighting scenarios.
E-ink and these rLCD screens use the ambient light to their advantage, so they're almost always lit at the appropriate level automatically, and you can supplement with much less fatiguing front-lighting in low light scenarios so you don't have the emission from the display shining in your face.
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"Runs a custom version of Android". God fucking shitnuggets. I just want computing to be mine again.
17Welcome news, with the caveats others have highlighted. E-ink is still quite expensive for reasons I dont understand. Someone said there were only a couple of manufacturers.
Cheap (and by that I mean rubbish) 10” tablets are available for under £30 in china, but if you want e-ink it’s at least double .
14The secret lies in patents and Monopoly.
15That someone was correct.
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I'm perfectly happy with the progress of e-ink in motion It's not good, but it's enough to follow the occasional animation in a mostly static environment.
Color isn't bad either.
(Both do need either the front light cranked or a lot of ambient light to get that vibrance. They kind of fade a little in lower light without the front light)
I don't hate the idea of better progress in rLCD. I'd be pretty interested in a steam-deck-like that worked well outside in harsh sunlight. But I have a hard time seeing it match eink in contrast for static content. E-ink has a lot less ground to cover to get to "flawless".
11So, like the screen in the PlayDate?
6Especially excited bout the medium screen sizes. I like my small eReader but sometimes need something larger for PDFs and to make highlighting and searching easier in non-fiction books. The giant tablet I am typing this on is nice for web and video, but it’s just too massive for reading and it appears tablets have the seem problem as smartphones with becoming ever bigger.
3Mine is about 20cm in diagonal, and I find this size perfect. Most of my textbooks are only available as PDF/DJVU, often as scans. And those that do have a text version often end up with messed-up formatting or a lot of recognition errors that make reading annoying, so even then I usually opt for a "raw" scan, despite lesser convenience.
2You can get 7,8,10 inch screens for ereaders, in addition to smaller ones. Where is there a gap?
(The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on a 10 inch color one is because I'll just be annoyed when 13 finally happens. Reading on big screens is awesome.) But there are options all over sizes below that.
19 inches.
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Good!
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