I think collapse@lemm.ee is a misinformation community
I think collapse@lemm.ee is a misinformation community
Most of the misinformation communities are easy to spot, but !collapse@lemm.ee falls into a slightly different category, and it presents itself in an unusual way. It seems like one of the main mods flavors his postings with a consistent sprinkling of posts that say that Europe not buying fossil fuels from Russia is a catastrophe for Europe, and they must reverse course as soon as possible and stop trying to depend on renewable energy, since it doesn't work.
Here are some examples from a most recent post. It's far from the only post that includes this general shape and character, but it's particularly on the nose. From https://lemm.ee/post/49292464:
That will leave Europe with expensive LNG from Qatar and the US, as well as some pipeline gas from Norway and through Turkiye, which is Russian gas in a roundabout, third-party way. As always: higher complexity comes at a higher price — a direct consequence of the EU’s economic war on its largest energy supplier.
With the predictable unpredictability of wind and solar, however, and with a massive reliance on natural gas fired power plants to balance electricity demand, Europe has just saw the fastest drop in natural gas storage in years. Yes, the weather was cold in the past couple of weeks, but it wasn’t nearly as cold as it could get in the dead of winter. Wind on the other hand stopped blowing, which not only resulted in lower electricity generation from wind turbines, but also in thicker clouds and more persistent fog… Leading to a much diminished solar power generation. Welcome to the good old Dunkelflaute (or the dark doldrums) so common this time of year, and by the way sometimes throughout the entire winter... Who could have thought that “renewables” produce much less electricity during wintertime…?
Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.
In the meantime, and just for the record, the IMF has just named Russia the 4th largest economy of the world, surpassing Japan and Germany; after the World Bank classified it as a high income country. Despite all protestations, sanctions actually helped Russia rein in its worst oligarchs and encouraged investments to replace lost imports. Contrary to what Europe’s ruling elite had in mind, their policy has lead to a huge economic boom in Russia, driven by internal consumption and powered by an abundant supply of fossil fuels.
I asked the mod about what was up with this, on an earlier post, and they didn't seem to have much of a response other than an appeal to authority. (https://lemm.ee/post/49069993)
Obviously, I could be right or wrong, and no one's obligated to answer my questions about anything, but at that point I was looking at it as "You may be unintentionally posting misinformation" and warning the person, and their response didn't line up for me with someone who is innocently posting informative content because they believe it to be true.
Primary contributor is a single user with mod status, and extremely limited engagement via comments. Looks susceptible to bias based on metadata alone.
61The mod and community were both on .ml until the mod's account there got suspended, so it's hardly a surprise that they're taking up a pro-Russia position
Unfortunately it seems like the mod's position on climate change in general, based on the discussion about the post that got them suspended, is that there is nothing we can do. Specifically because they think that the only solution would be population reduction and control, and that's not politically viable. So I maybe wouldn't bother listening to anything this persom says, because even if you think they are right there's nothing useful to be done with the information
23You're spreading misinformation. We moved the community because some lemmy.ml instance admins started censoring the community content which obviously isn't acceptable. Nobody was banned.
You also mistaken to think we believe there is a solution. A predicament has none. What you do with the information is up to you. If you think it is useless, just don't engage.
I will not continue further in this thread and suggest you find something more suitable to do with your time. Have a nice day.
-3I'm not saying the linked post got you banned, I'm saying that the discussion about the post is on there. However I did misread the modlog - your .ml account was only suspended, not permanently banned, so I will edit that
You also mistaken to think we believe there is a solution
I specifically said you didn't think there was a viable solution
If you think is useless, just don't engage.
That was also what I said
10
In the meantime, and just for the record, the IMF has just named Russia the 4th largest economy of the world, surpassing Japan and Germany; after the World Bank classified it as a high income country.
What would even be #3 if Japan and Germany are out? The IMF’s October numbers (the most recent) list Russia’s economy as just over and under half as large as Japan’s and Germany’s, respectively, as a note.
20They may be talking about the PPP-adjusted numbers:
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPSH@WEO/CHN/USA/JPN
That's a metric that's tailor-made, though, for exaggerating the health of an economy that has a large internal industrial base, but does minimal trade with the outside and whose currency has absolutely cratered with respect to the rest of the world.
Also, they're classed as a high income country because their national income per capita has risen to $14,250 US.
16PPP makes sense, but you definitely have to specify that when talking about it (assuming your intent is not misinformation). “Largest economy” is not a specific thing, obviously, but googling it brings back exclusively GDP results. Given the super misleading statistic from a reputable source, I would have to agree that this is intentional.
15
This is the the spinoff community where the mods straight up left because they as the near singular uploaders got pushback for some of the content they were sharing was false or problematic and they made such a tantrum they basically got thrown out and told everyone else that we needed to follow them because they were what's best for community?
Yeah I wouldn't exactly trust them and I didn't hold much weight to their posts previously either. A lot of blog opinion posts masquerading as intelligent discussion.
This is also the same group that prior to the migration I saw saying that the earth had a hard 1 billion human cap and would often say that we needed to reduce our population down to that amount naturally or by not protecting people during catastrophe and even worse if you pushed them a little on it they would say 3rd world countries could give up the most people as the most polluting and fastest growing countries they should all take their different colored skin and die to leave more space for the rest of them.
TL;DR:
Yeah I would stay clear of that place. Honestly all the "collapse" adjacent communities on Lemmy are pretty conspiracy first and deeply problematic wish fulfilment at best, too desperately searching for the end of their suffering through the suffering of others18I notice the nihilism is always selectively applied, too.
It's never the case that Russia's economy is going to be affected in the upcoming global collapse. Russia is always doing great. It's every other country that's so hopelessly on a death-course that there's no point in even reversing anything, and so they might as well go back to buying Russian oil again, to stave off the inevitable before they all die.
Also, food crops are never a big issue. Sustainability of energy, specifically fossil fuel energy, is a huge issue underpinning the economy. But having stuff to eat isn't important, and no particular issues might arise that anyone might want to pay attention to as regards it.
10Contrapoints: "'That's what happens when the snowflake / shitpost tension collapses into pure shitposting. It's boring. And immature. Like when someone says he wants to watch the world burn. You only get to watch when you have the privilege of not being on fire."
4They have an idea of how they want the world to collapse in their mind and want to search for the evidence of exactly that.
Most people have that bias. Searching for evidence that makes them correct. Look at all those mom blogs which the collapse community is often closer too than not.
I'd prefer it if it was just a place to observe things basic to modern society breaking, regressionist acts or actions, and pre-emptive scientific flags of upcoming climate changes but that's not what most people want out of their self confirmation bias.
3
nonsense. Link sources to demonstrate you aren't just making stuff up
2
Darn, we need Collapse on here. Last thing we needed is for the mod to be compromised.
10That's not the main collapse comm.
The major one is on .ml, which obviously has its own problems but at least isn't a single person.
5
While that article does look as if its author has bought into some propaganda originating in Russia, that's really only revealed in the final paragraph, not the part you quoted. You seem to be reacting more to the "fossil fuels power everything" and "this latest rise in the price of oil and gas means that the final collapse of global industrial civilization is now underway" attitudes, both of which which are fine American traditions.
10Could it be that the GRU are looking beyond the usual tankie and neo-Nazi milieus and cultivating assets amongst the very online doomers?
10"Could"??
the answer is "yes, of course."
10If Russia were half as competent as you people hallucinate them to be, you'd be speaking Russian right now.
-4
I blocked that com a while ago, I don’t need depressing doomerposting in my feed
9Yeah the copy paste comments from different instances here are showing how guilty that instance is
6I agree that it's odd that a collapse community (presumably pro-environment?) post would argue for using more fossil fuels instead of renewables, but looking at it from a strictly economic perspective, my understanding is that Europe not buying natural gas from Russia is indeed severely affecting their economy.
4That part is completely accurate, yes. What I was referring to was more the idea that they need to go back to buying Russian fuel, because solar panels are destroying their electrical grid, and the Russian economy is doing great because sanctions actually helped it enormously. That, and also the mod's total disinterest in discussing the topic when I pointed out some of the suspect elements of the stuff he was posting.
7What I was referring to was more the idea that they need to go back to buying Russian fuel, because solar panels are destroying their electrical grid, and the Russian economy is doing great because sanctions actually helped it enormously.
But from what I understand, those things you listed are all at least partly true, from a strictly economic perspective. I agree that it's a poorly thought-out opinion from an environmental / climate perspective though.
-3
Thanks for the heads up
3Why is it misinformation, just because it has a somewhat pro-russuan line? In your post / comments you don't point out any falsehoods or anything misleading, just that it sounds Russian.
You can call them out as a putin-sympathizer if you think so and let people know about their bias, but that's all this seems to be, biased opinions, not misinformation.
-15Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.
21If it's misinformation it's comically weak. Companies investing in surge protection and batteries? Tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars? The horror! Better get back to destroying the planet for cheap while propping up Putin. There's surely no way electricity suppliers will ever overcome such difficulties by, you know, themselves buying batteries and surge suppressors.
14
Report on drama, don't start it. If you disagree with a poster, debate them.
-42OP did, in https://lemm.ee/post/49069993
36No other obvious place to put this jumped out at me. Is there maybe a better place to post it?
I linked to the place where I tried to discuss this with the mod in question. Discussing it with them directly was my first stop, yes, but if I'm seeing repeated postings of comically obvious Russian propaganda, and addressing it directly with the poster doesn't go anywhere, I don't think that discussion needs to be the end of the line in terms of discussing it.
31I've been subscribed to the community from it was on ml. Admittedly I don't read it all that often, but the goal of the community was to showcase how things are falling apart. From my perspective climate change is a part of that and capitalism is most of that. If I was to post regularly in that community, my posts would reflect that and have a significant anti-imperilism slant. To label a community as misinformation because you happen to disagree with the primary content creator doesn't sit right with me.
-13
There's no point in engaging with a malicious actor, my guy. This is a report on observations, and I am here to report that these observations match my own.
18Yeah. I do think it’s worth engaging once or twice and asking questions. But no one needs to spend indefinite time going back and forth with someone who’s posting nonsense.
5
Report on drama, don't start it. If you disagree with a poster, debate them.
4