Funtastic 😅

I still believe the name should be Linux Subsystem for Windows. The other way around sound like Proton

That would require Microsoft admitting they come in second.
- The one Microshaft fanboi downvoting you for speaking facts 🤣
Microsoft has always been terrible at naming things. And at developing things. And at literally everything.
- I'd say the one thing they've been decent at is input devices, oddly enough. I was pretty happy with my SideWinder 3D Pro joystick and my Intellimouse Explorer back in the day. I also still (very occasionally) use an Xbox 360 controller attached to my Linux PC.
  No credit for Xboxes themselves, let alone other hardware like Zunes and Windows Phones and shit, of course.
- And themselves, generally
- Except VSCode for some reason. VSCode is great.
It’s also usually lawyers that create these names. I worked on databases for IBM Cloud and they were all called “IBM Cloud Databases for Elasticsearch” and what have you. Despite it being an offering of the database on IBM’s cloud.
Since Elasticsearch is a brand name, the “host” corporation corporation has to present it as a product “for” the brand name rather than as the brand name itself to avoid implying that they are acting AS Linux or Elasticsearch or whoever is the third party.
From where do you think comes the Balmer peak?
https://xkcd.com/323/
It actually makes sense. It's a subsystem in Windows (therefore a windows subsystem) that makes Linux work
It is a subsystem of Windows that Linux runs in. It's not a subsystem of Linux.
Windows is the system. It's the host operating system. It created a subsystem specifically for running a child operating system. In this case, Linux
I can't cite a source but I read once that the lawyers got involved and said Microsoft/Windows/some other term they have legal control of had to be the first word.
- Lawyers, they fuck up everything.
- I think that's just branding 101
- Then why not call it "Windows subsystem of Linux"? Changes the meaning of the sentence completely
In what world would Microsoft allow the Linux name to appear before Windows? If MS were a person, they would be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

To this day, I still don't understand what takes windows updates so dam long. Not sure about Mac, but Linux takes, what, 5 minutes at most if you've gone a while.

This is a byproduct of one of the largest and more ignored differences between windows and linux. The fact that Linux let's you modify files while they are open whereas windows doesn't.
This means that you can update a linux system by just replacing the files with the new ones while it runs. On the other side, Windows can't modify its own files while it runs, so instead it has a second entire OS to update itself, and requires a reboot to unload all the files and boot from the updater without locking windows files.
- In some sense this would even seem an advantage of Windows. (I know it's the fundamental reason for many hangs and freezes, but the idea that a file is a lockable resource doesn't seem that bad.)
- ReplaceFile exists to get everyone else's semantics though?
- Silverblue also does this, yet updates are really quick
Mac updates are less frequent but take longer. They also restart the machine. One difference though is that my mac never took it upon itself to start an update without asking my opinion.
- /laughs in company enforced updates/
  First they nag you. Then they nag even more. Then they blur out everything making your system unusable unless you hit update.
Lack of proper package management is my assumption.
Very true for mainstream distros, but there's more: Linux updates in the background. No matter how long it takes(if you for example use Gentoo), there is zero downtime. And with kexec your system can be its own bootloader and can do insane stuff like starting new kernel without re-running POST, which is on servers is very important(because they have shitty BIOS that takes ages to boot).
I hear it takes a long time on Macs too!
thankfully I don't have this problem on my Gentoo
- I'd be using Gentoo if not for installing software being something you have to plan for.
Mac updates are usually at least a GB in my experience, they take a while
They have no packages but do a full patch of the system data. Since this is the most complex approach and almost everything can go wrong down to the core they spend most of the time with checking and cleaning state.
Sometimes I won't use Tumbleweed for a few months then boot it up and it will update every package on the system (literally full reinstall of the os and all installed software) faster than Windows can search for updates. What the heck?
and on linux you can upgrade while the system is running and then reboot
The Nintendo Switch is the gold standard of updates for me.
Can't remember a windows update taking longer than 5 minutes. And even if it did take that long, you can just press "update and shutdown" when you stop using the pc. Windows has a lot of problems but this isn't one of them.
- A lot of it happens in the backgound. It is at least a 15-30 minute process from start to finish. Very annoying if you have an older computer as it is sucks up a lot of resources updating during the background updates.
  I normally don't ever shutdown or restart my desktop. I like leaving program and stuff running so I can continue what I am doing when I get back. With an update I have to close out all of my shit and then shutdown and open everything back up.
  I also swear when you have updates pending on a restart the computer doesn't run very well.
- If your computer is always running it may never take longer than five minutes. But try to leave your computer shut down for a month or more. Then updates accumulate and it can take really long to make them.

WSL allowed my stupid Windows desktop to run Pihole. Very cool? Meh.

Not as cool as running Pihole on an old android phone. Somehow that’s much more stable.

Everything that doesn't involve Microsoft is more stable.
- Meh, Microsoft has put out some shitty fucking software but Windows XP, 7, and 10 were tight.
  The only time any of these OS’s fell apart was when I downloaded viruses from sketchy sites.
- One would think this only involves their ~~operating~~ spyware system, but all of their "professional" software is just as bad too!
Well yeah, stable running on unstable is still unstable. Cant't build a fundament on sand. etc.
- I think the word you're looking for is "foundation" lol
  fundament
  noun
  The buttocks.
  The anus.
  The natural features of a land surface unaltered by humans.
  In practice the word is almost always used in the adjective form "fundamental", which actually refers more to a foundation than a fundament.
I thought it was pretty cool I could migrate my RISC CPU design from Logisim to Verilator, and even throw in some GTK so I could display some video, and have it all just work.

I once tried wsl on my work machine instead of having to deal with cygwin or msys2. Unfortunately the virus scanner didn't like that a whole lot and my account was locked. Man do I love enterprise problems on top of normal problems.

That must have been an incredibly shitty virus scanner if it complains about Windows features.
- Probably McAfee or Norton, which are pretty much viruses themselves.
- Enterprise security software tends to err much more on the side of caution.
  There are plenty of Windows features who's usage will flag because they are also favourite tactics by actual threats, such as Powershell one liners. Bonus if it's in Base64.
- My company's shut off my Internet for using visual studio. Sometimes they're just too aggressive
- Agreed. It was Sophos.
The VPN client I'm using doesn't play properly with wsl, so I can often randomly not use internal services, because there's no route available. Unfortunately, that includes our k8s cluster, so I have to use a different kubectl outside of wsl to work with it. Awesome.
- I feel like your company could get you another vpn right? Like that seems really annoying to have to deal with

WSL, the best example of how absolute freedom will be misused!

Why? What’s wrong with WSL?
- It’s backwards lol. We want windows stuff to work in Linux so we have a stable system that can do everything we need, instead they gave us Linux on top the unstable pile of shit we all hate

My director got knocked off in the middle of a call where we were trying to establish requirements with a specialist due to a Windows update. I would have laughed if these guys weren't worth so much.

Should have laughed if this was a corporate device. They ignored the continuous popups for too long and was forced into compliance at an inconvenient time because they couldn't be bothered to reboot at the end of the day for likely 2 weeks.
- Our corporate devices are set to update and reboot automatically. This is set to happen in the evenings and usually works, but sometimes does not. I leave my device online and powered on 24/7 and still get caught by midday updates that were scheduled for 2am.

what does windows updates have to do with WSL

WSL exists on a Windows system which means you're still subject to Microsoft's rather insane update practices.
- linux: sudo pacman -Syyu/sudo apt update/whatever your distro uses
  windows: updates whenever the hell it feels like

not trying to be the one person who pushes linux down everyones throats, but in all of my time using it i had to restart to update only once

You do have to reboot to use your new kernel after an update. But it's just a normal reboot, not the whole blocking installation process like in Windows.
- And a Linux reboot takes like 40s at most and everything works. Where in Windows it takes like 2m to be able to log in and a good 5-10m for all the apps to start working at normal speed
- Not always, but mostly yeah. Especially for home users, it's not worth the hassle.
- Aren't there distros that treat the kernal like anyother package and can hot swap it?
Ever since I switched to Arch, I've never had to restart to update. I always restart anyway, because I want the update to apply to my current session, but I don't have to.
- lol Arch was the distro where I had to reboot the most after updates because the new kernel modules wouldn't load with the old kernel

Honestly incredible that this issue has persisted in OEM versions for decades but seems to be progressively getting worse instead of better, now affecting even LTSC copies (for people too stupid to remember to turn automatic updates off). Windows, if you take hours to update a machine twice a week then you're making important equipment inoperable during that time. Please fix that, or you will lose market share even faster than you inevitably will.

Last week an update broke my moms mandatory TPM nonsense module thingy. Like bro, this is a laptop that ships with win11 preinstalled and an update breaks your preconfigured system? I can't even comprehend. Like how the heck are casual users supposed to deal with that?

Look at those eyes, this guy is peaking

WSL is just a weird and slow VM. Still beats C++ development with visual studio tho.

Well there's msys64/mingw for clang/gcc anyway. Fuck VS.

Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.

They can try to extinguish over my dead body.
- Do you know that there is a Linux port of DirectX that runs only with WSL?

Microsoft really doesn't want Linux running on bare metal.

Back when Microsoft started showing interest in and contributing to Linux, I knew that they were up to something no good like this. But honestly, anyone who thinks that WSL running inside a very abusive Windows environment is an alternative to true Linux/BSD experience, is frankly clueless. They deserve everything MS subjects them to.
- I tried WSL for a week to give it a fair shake. It sucked just horrible all around. The worst part is that it left behind reginfo and other crap I'm too afraid of trying to remove from fear of borking my windows install. Yeah I can reinstall it but I'm lazy.

I'm not trying to defend windows, it has a myriad of issues, but I've never understood the meme of it updating at inconvenient times. I run windows 11 pro, I set it to only update when i tell it to and it does... Like it's never been a problem, wasn't a problem in windows 10 or 7 pro either.

I don't get it, am i windows whisperer and not know it?

As a software developer, I still struggle with windows fuckery. I have to manage about a dozen machines, each of which has different tasks, and sometimes they decide to just up and reboot for the mandatory update. While I am out of state.
Uhg. I spent time yesterday writing a windows service to perpetually send a WoL magic packet to those computers just to avoid this situation again. They may never shut off again.
I mean... There's videos of it suddenly doing an update in the middle of people's gaming/work sessions lol. I used to stream way back when windows updates were at their troll peak and had one kick off in the middle of a stream. It just happened randomly to some of us regardless of what was scheduled. I don't imagine it happened more than once for too many people. Generally speaking it's pretty good about sneaking updates in even though I detest how aggressive it is about them
There's always the centrally managed corporate Windows desktops. My workplace is better about this now, but previously they'd just push down updates and with some of them you'd have little other choice but to let it proceed no matter how inconvenient the timing.

Wow, that one is old.

Lately WSL has become unresponsive and unkillable every time I wake my work laptop from sleep, so now I have to shut it down every day instead. Sucks.