Toyota to offer manual gearbox in next-generation electric cars
Driven: Toyota's manual gearbox for electric cars | Autocar
I don't really see the point of this. It's just adding complexity for the sake of it. As far as I can tell when you change gear it just changes some software parameters, there are no physical gears. Yet there's a clutch and the ability to stall?
I love a manual transmission on a car but this is really stupid.
Why? This makes no sense. Electric cars don't need a transmission, they are direct drive.
My car has a CVT and it has shift paddles that are totally unnecessary.
It's not a real transmission. It's a fake clutch and stick. Both are tied to the computer to make it feel like you're shifting.
As a gearhead I get the sporting and nostalgia aspects. But as a member of the 21 century, I think we can all agree new automatic transmissions are way quicker than any human can be and it’s time to move on. Plus, and EV doesn’t need a transmission, fewer parts to fail is one of the best parts.
I'll never understand the "quickness" argument. Nobody buys a manual to shift faster than an automatic, they buy it for the experience.
I want one so I can wiggle it in neutral at a stoplight
Sure sure sure but I LOVE A MANUAL. Idk about how efficient an automatic is
If you don't enjoy the sport of driving, you probably don't want a manual.
I'm interested in this. I feel like driving is a more connected experience with a manual and always prefer it. But that's what it is: a preference.
It's not very often people express that what they think isn't absolutely the only opinion people should have and just wanted to say I appreciate that you're willing to admit that.
no, no. pro-skub only.
Except it isn't connected at all. It's a shifting mini game programmed into the car's computer.
Agreed. Not only does it lead to a more connected experience it forces the driver to may more attention to their vehicle and surroundings. I feel I am more prone to say dreaming of becoming distracted behind the wheel of an automatic vehicle.
My experience is opposite. I can focus more on driving without the distraction of gear shifting and keep both hands on wheel. Also in some circumstances having to change gear in some situations restricts your body position when you should have more freedom of movement to properly look around for pedestrians and cyclists - this is the case for me when turning into my housing estate.
The again i live in a rhd country so I change gears with my left hand. I find it a bit easier to do it with right.
A lot of the features listed in the article (written by an AI?) sound corny. This is probably a thing for managers and executive level luxurybros, like the upper level EV market.
The idea of giving the driver more control like this in an EV so it's more fun is good though. They just feel so fkn heavy and like you're driving a computer.
I agree 100% that my EV felt like driving a computer, which itself was driving the car.
Weird thing is I liked it. It was like driving a really good computer, that drove my car really well.
I can understand why people hate it. It's deeply strange how certain kinds of normal car feedback is missing.
Speculating a bit, I doubt that retrofitting a manual transmission will help with that strangeness.
But I bet it'll be a hit with folks like me who don't mind it, and also loved manual transmission cars.
I feel like I'm a very niche audience though. Most people who I have met who love a manual transmission hated the way my EV drove.
Yeah, unless there is a performance benefit, it's just a potential for problems. Theoretically, an electric motor could be designed with the rpm and torque output of an ICE where a manual transmission would be beneficial for a car. Electronically simulating a transmission is ridiculous.
Honestly most electric motors dont reach peak power until they get to high RPM... a transmission does still make sense if youre not using a tesla motor made to run at like 18k rpm. Why simulate it?
I didn't read the article, but in a modern ev I can only see merit in maybe 2 or three speeds plus reverse if it's an actual transmission and not just a parameter change.
With the stick shift Honda civic converted to electric that I tried out when deciding if I wanted to convert my own, it had the original transmission and you really only used gear 2 and 4. You came to a full stop geared in, and changed directly to 2 while at 0 rpm. Definitely a strange experience to anyone used to stick shift.
Did they develop their own system, or did they license Koenigsegg's?
This definitely has a place in sports cars. More control is a plus. If it's any good, it will be a hit.
What are you talking about? It has an electric motor. It has a near flat toque curve. This literally gives you less control. There is a reason Formula E cars only have two gears and spend the majority of the race in second.
I love manuals. I daily a car with a manual transmission. I'd drive any other EV before I drove a fake stick shift EV.
Maybe an excuse to set two different prices, but charge more overall.
Well a hybrid car is significantly more complicated than a petrol car (multiple power sources that have to be integrated through the drive train), however I'm sure they stretch the pricing well beyond reasonable proportions.
My hybrid escape gets double the gas mileage of my ice Soul. It’s not just slap 10k more on the same car.. I can make lots of small trips almost entirely electric and just need the engine for highway and quicker acceleration.
With my hybrid my trip to the grocery store is 80mpg for the 3/4 miles I’m going, in my ice it’s 24
Adding complexity............. Motherfuckers are adding electric tailgate and auto wipers and you are worried about the manual transmission.
Why are you getting downvoted? This would make an EV more fun to drive even if it isn't the "real thing" and makes it slower within the mode.
The amount of people downvoting similar opinions in this thread is off the charts. These people need to get a grip.
We do think that EVs lack soul. However it isn't because they lack a manual gearbox. It's because they are treated like electronics devices. You are discouraged or outright blocked from repairing, tinkering, and modifying most EVs. They are all focused on peak efficiency or luxury, not towards a fun and engaging driving experience.
To be clear, I didn't expect the first wave of EVs to be driver focused canyon carvers, but to get me into one they'll need more than fake engine noises and simulated gearboxes.
HEEEELLLLL YYEEESSSS
I know in the country I live in if you do your driving test with automatic then your license is only valid for an automatic. This law should probably be changed imo, but I can see it causing people to be hesitant to go in on an ev if it means they will likely only be able to drive it. For people who already have a license, it obviously isn't an issue if they are just getting a new car, but they are also looking at young first time buyers and new drivers.
The way I have usually seen in the past is that, if you get an automatic license you can only drive automatic. If you get a manual transmission license you can do both. Is this not how your country works? I don't know how this is relevant otherwise.
It is. That's what I was saying. Perhaps they are doing this for places that are hesitant to purchase a car that isn't manual, because they (or their kid when getting a license) would have a limited license with an automatic.
When we first moved here we got an automatic with low miles for super cheap, because no one wanted an automatic.
America doesn’t work that way. But there’s so few manual cars now it doesn’t matter.
I can see a practical use for this if the simulation is as genuine as claimed. If a driver wants to learn how to drive stick it seems these cars can be used for teaching it without risking damage like that of gears grinding. They could learn how to use a clutch before starting to learn to drive a sports bike, for example.
Still makes sense for the sports cars. But very few people on the planet want a manual EV daily. This will fail on commuter cars.
Since it's all software, it would surprise me if it can't just be disabled when you're not in the mood for fun. I think that will make it a bit more appealing to the masses.
That's actually a good point I hadn't considered.
It doesn't tho. An automatic can outshift a human anytime. For purists, they put in paddles.
Being able to choose when to shift is often more important than how quickly you shift. Paddle shifters require expensive transmissions or some software trickery.
At normal speeds gears do not make sense for a daily. At track speeds you'll find most EVs, outside the 600+ bhp type models hit their top end. Having a second and third gear is helpful for that. Not shift speed.
most amusingly no torque when you suddenly try and accelerate in top gear,
That's heroin for the carbon junkies, nothing more. I "look forward" to an armada of assholes trying to simulate asshole driver behaviour on an electric car 🙄
The point would be to fill a niche for people who like driving manual, but want to transition to electric.
Probably won't be very popular, but in this big world, there is a niche for everything.
It would be great if they could make a cheap electric car for the masses before filling niches.
People in niches generally pay more. EVs are more expensive and made in smaller quantities (until production ramps up, maybe). So making EVs to appeal to a niche consumer with disposable income can be a smart move to jumpstart the EV business.
That's (one reason) why Tesla started with luxury sports cars. Car enthusiasts and other lovers of manual gear shift are another interesting segment to try and tap. I wonder what other segments they might go for? Racing? Off-road? Delivery? Taxi? Commercial transport?
It's tricky though. You don't see a lot of EV motorcycles, but I think that's because ebikes are a better power/weight ratio for the form-factor and use case. No one's getting a Harley to save the environment.
This stuff trickles down. AC, auto headlights and windows, touchscreens, information centers, etc were all luxury options for luxury cars....
If I had the time, money, and knowhow my dream car is an electric swapped Datsun 240z. You can keep the manual transmission when you're swapping an ICE car, I think it'd be pretty neat
I sort of get the point of the second one they mention - sounds like it can "emulate" hundreds of different cars, which could be fun.