I reckon this is the usage distribution of Lemmy servers that we'll end up with.
Incredible to think about that we got it right the first time (with email) and still had to spend the last 20 years complaining about centralized social networks.
Looks like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law
That is why it's important to also use other software than Lemmy like Mbin or Piefed. Users want choice and the Fediverse is only as decentralized as the software running on it. So please, think about this.
I dont think its the software* but the instance that matters. Everyone being on lw is not good (not that there is anything wrong with lw, just that centralization is bad). Thankfully most lemmy apps nowadays default to lemm.ee which should hopefully counter most of the centralization. Lemmy apps should rotate the default server when it gets too big which will help a lot (also shows the impact defaults have).
*Software would have mattered if the main devs instance was also the biggest. Or a very popular lemmy client defaulted to their own instance. With lemmy thats not the case.
Great point. If defaults didn’t matter Google wouldn’t have spent billions of dollars buying the default search position on other browsers.
I do not agree with you. Yes I'm a developer myself of Mbin. And I created Mbin. However, the problem with decentralization is that you still need to trust the developers who are building the decentralized apps. So within a decentralized ecosystem the centralized point are the developers and its project.
If you do not agree with Lemmy, you can go to Mbin. And visa versa; if you do not agree with Mbin devs, you can go to Lemmy, etc. Meaning you do need to have alternatives, otherwise choice is an illusion and decentralization is also an illusion.
~ Melroy, Mbin developer.
Also, have a look at https://lemmyverse.net/communities?order=active and count the number of non-LW communities in the top 20
Ironically, !fediverse@lemmy.zip could also be an alternative to this community.
@coffeeadmin@lemmy.coffee , have you considered crossposting there?
I think piefeds combined view makes this less of an issue. Like people subscribe to/post in the big communities because they are more active so get more comments and stuff. But in piefed you get the combined discussion from all the communities so you get the same experience even if you are subscribed to a less popular community on that topic.
I really do want to point out, Gmail is gonna get a massive lead as time goes on.
Doing parental consent forms for my schools library, most of the parents email were yahoo, Hotmail, etc. but EVERY SINGLE student email was Gmail, with the exception of like 10 out of (at least) 300 pages
(edit: to clarify, 300 pages is 300 emails)
There really is no competitor to Google Drive’s online collaborative document and slideshow editing right now. Apple and Microsoft have made some weak attempts but until their software works fully in a browser and is 100% free to get started, it won’t catch on. It not just about email.
Been on Gmail since it was invite only. It really is best in class. Hate on Google all ya like, but they got a lock on email early in the game.
And for those that think getting away from it is a matter of choosing another email provider, I'll say that Gmail does loads more than deliver email. Authentication is a huge and obvious use. Reading comments around here leads me to believe that many don't understand Google for Business and how integrated an org can be with those services.
Another note, just because the domain isn't gmail.com doesn't mean it isn't served by Google. For most companies it would be insane to host their own services and cheaper to let Google handle it all.
The raw SMTP landscape on the internet is such a shitshow. Setting up a SMTP server requires so many goddamn condoms that you might as well just give up and start using some other professional email service. Or you set it up just to forward email to a GMail account, and even then, Gmail bitches about how much spam you're forwarding it and blocks you for a time.
That's because these students were brain washed on that garbage.
I wonder how much of that has to do wtih chromebooks.
Android seems far more likely cause.
This is a terrible distribution and the semi-centralisation and gatekeeping by the established actors is one of the reason email is dying.
I think we can do much better than that 👍
Email has been "dying" for 20+ years. I'll believe it when I see it.
yeah its hard for an essential service to die. I will spout one of my super downvoted opinions but I think every government should be providing email service the same way they provide physical mail service. With all the rights currently given to physical mail. Im not saying as the only option and im being idealistic in thinking we can do like what we did with physical mail in this modern time. But I don't care. Its essential and there should be a version people have that is a right and cannot go away.
We should have large semi-centralized services. But they should be democratically controlled.
Do you ever think about why cities form? Rural life has a lot of appealing characteristics, plus it's the starting state of the world. Cities form because there is an advantage to size, proximity and specialization. If we had a new planet and completely evenly distributed the population across its land, we'd very quickly form cities regardless.
It's the same with centralized services. It takes a lot of special knowledge and equipment to run an email service. The average Lemmy user may have those resources, but even here, how many of us run our own email servers?
It costs less per person in resources to add more users after the first one. So there's an incentive to aggregate users together. And once you have a certain number of users, maybe you figure out some way to fund your operation, and you can pay more people to add features/capabilities. Soon your entity not only has more users, it's more appealing than a plan vanilla email service, and you get even more users. You're doing it cheaper and better than the DIYers.
I think centralization and size are naturally occurring. We should think about ways to exist and benefit from them, so something like Gmail but run as a worker cooperative.
As someone who runs a Lemmy server I can tell you that it isn't as simple as that.
Yes, there is an initial benefit from having more users on an instance, but this initial scaling benefit isn't linear. It rather abruptly stops at a few thousand users and after that it becomes much harder and more expensive to scale further. Only after going over that hump it might become cheaper again at the scale of hundred-thousand of users or so, but Lemmy the software is currently also unlikely to scale as a single instance to such numbers, so it isn't just a system operator question.
So no, unless you want to fully commercialize the Fediverse and bring in external investors to fund the getting over that initial hump, semi-centralisation is not a feasible way forward. And what would even be the point of that? Reddit exists and is basically the same.
Luckily ActivityPub is designed to scale horizontially through lots of smaller (but not tiny) instances, so I think we can manage without the above.
It'll probably follow Zipf's law, like most things.
Okay, based on that article Zipf's law seems to mostly apply to languages. Cities, for example, don't follow it.
Zipf's law is just a specific example of a power law. Other power laws exist for lots of different things, just with different exponents.
the jury seems out about cities. This paper suggests they don't follow a other distributions: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264275124002592 , but this one suggests that they do: https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/reports/2013/12/on-city-size-distribution_g17a2442/5k3tt100wf7j-en.pdf - specifically it suggests they DO follow Zipf's law, within a given country. Inter-country differences are likely due to different developmental trajectories over time.
It shows up when choosing things. Most people will choose the largest, some will choose the next largest, etc. I might be wrong, of course.
The thing about email is that the software is proprietary. Each of these providers has their own implementation of the interface, features, and integration with their tools (Google drive, photos, etc).
As long as lemmy servers run lemmy software, this won't happen, or at least won't be an issue as you can move to another server and not have to change your usage habits.
However if some server owners decide to fork Lemmy and develop their proprietary server, overhaul the UI, add features and attract users, it will start to become a problem.
Lemmy's AGPL license doesnt allow forking the code into a proprietary server. All changes need to be open source as well, otherwise the operator can get sued. So a proprietary Lemmy software would have to be developed from scratch which would take a long time.
email is a standard protocol. You can run your own server using FOSS software in 5 minutes if you start now. One of the biggest problems is that you will have a hard time "federating" to gmail and others due to the spam problematic, but that is something that we will see with Lemmy, too. Currently I can spin up my own server and start pushing shit to lemmy.world and other bigger instances, but I feel that this will change with the coming spam waves
Lemmy uses activityPub, and open protocol for social networking.
Piefed and mbin are both open source, and interoperate with lemmy.
Lemmy.world, lemm.ee.
federation and the concept of communities have always been a little awkward together since it's based on sunreddits where there is only one always.
The only ways this pans out is with having one server where the community is most successful to eat up the others or having like two or three who hate each other
It really just depends on how users have to choose a service and how much it matters. With email the service used doesn't really matter so most either use what is given to them (here that's often from their ISP) or what is recomended to them (e.g. Gmail or Hotmail here in the EU)
As long as nothing dominates I am ok with it
For fucks sake, have the 0 at the twelve o clock position and not this horrible mess. This ruins one's day.
By how easily you're offended, your day was probably going to be ruined anyway.
I kinda like it. The off-centered main line allows labels to be written easier.
That pie chart isnt including trust.
If I see a Hotmail/yahoo email, I immediately assume spammer or nontechnical boomer who has already been scammed a few times.
Lemmy instances have similar stigmas