3w ago

WMD<WMD

219 comments

All this thread tells me is how little memory people have. Late into Obama's office, he brokered a deal that would have reduced Iran's ability to create wmds in exchange for lifting sanctions while giving the rest of the world the ability to monitor them to make sure they actually stop trying to make a wmd. Trump infamously cancelled this deal early into his first run and now people are acting like he's doing a good job by wanting to attack Iran- Trump created this problem in the first place!
- Trump created this problem in the first place!
  I think it's good to be absolutely crystal clear on what the problem is. Iran is not building nuclear weapons. They say this themselves, and the entire American intelligence community, as well as the UN's IAEA agree that they haven't since 2003. The amount of evidence that Iran is building WMDs is exactly the same as it was for Iraq in the early 2000s (i.e., non-existent). So that's not the problem.
  
  Huh? what about all those 60% enriched uranium & refusal to let international experts to actually check what they are doing ?
- Trump created this problem in the first place!
  That's his whole strategy and always has been. Manufacture a crisis when something doesn't go right and reduce risk of getting closer to an orange jumpsuit. Ever notice nobody is talking about the Epstein Files now? He always pops ninja smoke. Only his poof of smoke is this giant splatter of shit that makes a mess for everyone to clean up while he escapes. The other big factor of this is that 75 million Americans are happy to clean all that up and ask for more.
- Warmongering and unconditional support is bipartisan.
  Biden never did anything to fix it, they're invariably 'sabotaged by the other side and powerless', same as with every other issue.
  Like when Trump unilaterally ended the missile treaties.
  If anything Biden escalated tension with Iran with some aggresive actions.
  And anyway Iran never was planning to get nukes.
  They are an advanced country and have nuclear energy which is their right.
  The scaremongering lies by the genocide state and their big bully friend do not change that.
  If anything, I hope they change their mind and start working on a nuke since they invariably get provoked and attacked for no reason.

Can someone fill me in, is there any actually grounds for Israel to attack Iran and why is the United States involved, y'know other than the usual simping for Israel.
- No, you've pretty much got it.
- I know people don't like to hear this but Iran has been funding terrorism forever now. Hezbolah, Houtis, Hamas - are all funded by Iran. They also been clearly working on nuclear weapons so you don't need to do complex math to see why Iran is a threat to Israel. If Iran ever gets nukes 100% they'd be aiming them at Israel or cover conventional attacks behind nuclear weapons.
  As for US, Israel literally exists because it gives US an in to middle east. It's only real US ally that aligns with west's freedoms in the region and is capable of executing military and security operations in the region so obviously is a very important subject.
  
  So in this example Israel is acting as a vassal state to the United States essentially?
  
  US foreign policy is terrorism, we don't give a shit about freedom and never did
  
  Brainwashed lib who has no clue who the actual "terrorists" are is here promoting genocide and terrorism? Zero surprise.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
- Because war helps economy. Even tho it makes everyone suffer on both sides and last few wars didnt help economy at all unless you sell weapons.
  Also WW2 ended great depression right after unions were legalized and first minimum wage law was signed into law. But yeah it was totally the war that singlehandedly fixed everything.
  /sarcasm
  
  war helps economy.
  Yeah that tells you what "the economy" is actually worth.

The claim is (as always), Iran is on the verge of having nuclear weapons.
The whole idea is that if Iran did get nuclear weapons, it would be too risky to attack them, and that they could use their immunity from being attacked to make the world a much worse place.
I don't know if we should believe the assessments of their capabilities. Israel has been saying they're days, weeks or months away from having a nuclear weapon for going on 30 years now. But, AFAIK, nobody has actually said that they currently do have WMD.
- Claiming that BS for 30 years:
  https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVb
  
  Am I seeing things right? Tabkie.tube being used as a source, in Lemmy.world, and with positive reception, and no negative comments?
- How have they been unable to make a nuclear weapon in that time, are they stupid?
  
  Well, if they had been trying, they probably would have done it. So, the fact they haven't done it suggests...
  
  According to the UN's IAEA, as well as the American intelligence community, they haven't tried building nukes since 2003.
  
  They're not trying.
  They are definitely not stupid and their population is far better educated than the US for instance.
  Who can't even produce a hypersonic missile with all the billions they piss away on 'defense' LOL
  Iran does have them, Russia has 4th gen, even China and India.
  Who's stupid?

This is a dumb meme because the whole argument is that if Iran gets nukes then we won't be able to attack them.
However I do think it's funny how many of the justifications for the unprovoked attacks on Iran sound exactly like Russian justifications if you just switch a couple names around:
Iran having nukes is a threat to the US security/Ukraine joining NATO (which would allow them to station nukes there) is a threat to Russian security
Iran's government is full of radical Islamists/Ukraine's government is full of Banderite Nazis
Iran is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Israel, as part of their aim to exterminate Jews/Ukraine is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Donbass, as part of their aim to exterminate Russians.
It's very silly how all these arguments are accepted as "obvious" and reasonable when it's our side, but flip the picture and it suddenly it becomes just as "obvious" that those lines of reasoning are not valid. At no point is either Iran or Russia's perspective seriously considered because they're the bad guys and we're the good guys, whether and to what extent those reasons are valid simply flips depending on who's using them.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
- I'm confused why people are downvoting you
  
  I assume because the people I'm criticizing don't have any other response, that's generally what downvotes mean.
- Yeah but Ukraine was aggressive.
  Russia is making it into a neutral neighbour akin Canada.
- BS comparison.
  Everything you mention is wrong
  
  I present to you Bloomcole, Lemmy's stupidest user. Give them a hand!
  
  Yeah that's about the level of argument I've come to expect from y'all: "Nuh uh."

I'd like to thank the mods for leaving conflicting comments up. I've seen too many echo chambers going up on lemmy. Appreciate you all. Also appreciate those I don't agree with for sharing their ideas, calling me out on mine and sometimes changing my mind, and taking the time for discourse. Those who argue in bad faith, have no open mind, and pretend to have empathy, fuck yourself.

No one has said they have a working WMD, but that they are very close to one and that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
It’s sound logic my guy. Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
- that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
  Because the West is such a force of good in the Middle East that someone being able to stand up to them is a bad thing?
  
  If that someone is a misogynist, homophobic, murderous regime of religious fanatics hellbent on making the world an even worse place, yes.
  
  I don’t think anyone is the good guy. But I certainly don’t want a fanatical religious regimes with nukes.
- Because I don't want the woman hating, gay oppressing, non democratic regime with thousands of working WMDs that I live in to start another fucking war
- Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
  Yeah, fuck the US, why are people defending it?
  
  Very original comment. Move to Iran then.
- I don't think this meme is defending the US.
  
  The US is democratic. Not that I think current US policy hates women or gays, but if it did and the policy was enacted by a democratically elected government that campaigned on it then what you are seeing is simply the people’s will at work.
- Whatever you think of the Iranian government, (they're not good, but also blame the US for helping put them there in the first place) there is only one country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons and they used it on civilian populations, twice. That same country has been invading one country or another for most of it's history, devastating civilians in the process all for the sake of greed. THAT is the country that is policing the world, deciding who's too "dangerous" to have what is apparently the only deterrent to it's routine aggression.
  The only way to not recognize this for what it is is to have never stopped to think about the American exceptionalism propaganda you've been fed your entire life. We're not the good guys. Even if we want to see a better government in these countries, the US is more likely to impede that and install a different dictator than they are to usher in a proper democracy. See: Vietnam, Korea, most of Latin America, various post-soviet countries, various countries in the middle east, others that I'm probably not thinking of and.. oh right: IRAN!
  
  Lets not forget, the USA has been at war for BY FAR the majority of its life, I think but dont quote me on this the US has only been at peace for 2 years
  
  I have repeatedly stated that I don’t think there are any good guys here. But there are friends and there are enemies and they are clearly enemies so I don’t want them with nukes, simple as.
- I agree and fucking hate the regime. Can't wait for them to live free.
  But, Jon Stewart got through to me the other day with video clips of Netanyahu claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years. I'm anti war and and don't want another Iraq under false pretense. I would love for the people to get their democracy back without casualty.
  I believe it's the reason the West is in Israel. And that it's probably only under control bc of that. But questioning the legitimacy of there being any urgency.
  
  Absolutely NOBODY involved in this escalation gives one single fuck AT ALL about liberating the Iranian people. None. Nobody. Zilch. Zero. This is PURELY a capitalist venture to enrich assholes and fuel the power of radical fascists. There is ZERO benefit to ANYONE else. None. Zilch. Zero.
  
  Does no one remember STUXNET? We've been sabotaging their efforts to create a nuke for a long time.
  
  claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years
  I don't understand this argument tho. Why can't it be true? it takes time to enrich uranium like that and it's actually possible that it took Iran 15 years to get here especially with so much opposition, no? Do you remember Stuxnet - with this amount of sabotage it's totally possible it would take 15 or many more years to get to proper enrichment.
- Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
  Strawman me harder daddy
- HOW LONG have everyone who just happens to be anti-Iran been saying that they ALMOST have a nuke?
  How many nukes does Israel have and QUITE illegally?
  Iran SHOULD have a nuke as a deterrent against the most violent terrorist nation in the ME.
- Because the current intelligence says they're not close to one. Unless a report came out that I missed?
- Alright grand dad, let's take you to bed.
- it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
  You mean Iran would "stalemate" the theft of land, the genocide of palestinians, etc.?
  Yes, empire would hate that. They're gonna have to murder millions of innocent people again like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Chile, etcetcetcetc....
  
  K
- The whole WMD situation is so shit. Iran cant have a stalemate to prevent attacks on them if they dont have nuclear weapons, so they would be attacked all the time to prevent them from having one. Yet their regime is also the one which is not a friendly to neighbors and has barely any friendly allies therefore it is in the best interests of the rest of the world that they won't get nuclear weapons. And again, preventing them from having it would allow Israel to bomb them freely.
  Dunno how others see it, but no matter what side I try to look at this issue at, this is all looks bad and worse than the previous angle. Sad to acknowledge that Iranians have to go through this. Even if regime fails, I bet it'll take many decades for Iranians to become a free of regime state.
  
  Yet their regime is also the one which is not a friendly to neighbors and has barely any friendly allies therefore it is in the best interests of the rest of the world that they won’t get nuclear weapons.
  I'm pretty sure the zio regime is least friendly to the people who are actually from the middle east. The zio regime is literally bombing Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Yemen, etc. They have an overt plan to steal land from bascially every country. They're engaged in an active genocide.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel
  It's definitely in the interest of humanity to disarm these nuclear terrorists.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
  I bet it’ll take many decades for Iranians to become a free of regime state.
  How long until the middle east is free from the zio terror regime?
  Gotta be delusional AF to think Iran is the problem here.
- Don't bother. This site seems to be about 50% propaganda accounts and 50% teenagers who have no understanding of geopolitics and are convinced that anyone against Israel are the good guys. Absolutely no understanding as to why it's desirable to prevent a North Korea situation in the middle east.
  
  Wrong. Iran arent good guys; Israel is a psychotically violent terrorist nation bent on annihilation of all neighboring countries. How many countries has Israel attacked? Have many have Iran attacked? Who attacked first? Why is trump INISISTENT upon wae with Iran even though his own spies confirmed there was no nuke program in Iran? Why did he destroy the treaty we had with them the first term?
  Perhaps you should consider that YOU are the simp.
  
  It's really hard to believe that so many people defend Hamas and Iran's government here. I'm convinced all of them are bots or just literal idiots.
  
  Anyone against shitrahell is a good guy.
  And you have no business preventing or say in what's desirable.
  Attacking Iranian civilians -again- and you're trying to justify that.
  Who's the propaganda account?
  
  Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol
- LOL you have been claiming that for 30 years hasbara boy:
  https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVb
- It's hard to believe there's so much apologetics for Iran here. But hey, there are entire swaths of people saying Hamas are "freedom fighters".
  I'm tempted of blocking all politic communities on lemmy but I'm not letting these crazies hijack yet another reddit alternative.
  
  Hamas are the resistance in occupied Gaza. Resistance will always be labelled "terrorism" by the occupying force. Or would you disagree that the résistance in France under Nazi Germany occupation was preceived drastically different depending on which side you were on?
  And as for Iran, I think that if you'd be interested in helping them get over their regime, it has to come from within. Because if we look at Afghanistan, beside years of suffering, what has improved thanks to the western intervention?
  
  Political tribalism has destroyed their minds and turned them into reactionaries. Their takes are whatever is opposite to the other teams take, and they’ll die on that hill if they have to, even if it’s not logical, even if the opposite team is right.
  
  Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol

Iraq, after the Gulf War, was never found by the IAEA to be in possession of or active production of uranium in excess of 20% target enrichment. That's a level consistent with civilian-only use.
The IAEA has repeatedly confirmed Iran has enriched uranium to 60% in increasingly large quantities. Iran has also admitted it, and provides nebulous excuses when pressed about it. There is zero modern civilian purpose for that level of enrichment, and it doesn't take much time to refine from 60% to 85% for high yield weapons grade uranium. Days to months, not years.
Assessments have concluded that Iran does not yet have a functional nuclear weapon, but once they do possess one, now your hands are tied. The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation. Talks are meaningless and not in good faith - Iran sees Israel as a mortal enemy that already has nuclear weapons. Like with North Korea, Iran's nuclear proliferation was used as an indefinite negotiating tool and never intended to be off the table. Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn't those countries have done it already over the past 50 years? Iran's leadership has, over and over, declared their intent to destroy Israel. They provide weapons and support for proxy groups fighting Israel. Who's to say they wouldn't deliver a nuclear device to a proxy group that sneaks it into Tel Aviv and detonates it, then denies responsibility?
Should have dunked on North Korea before they completed their bomb too, but I guess unlike Iran, their regional partner China wasn't already preoccupied losing another war.
- Days to months, not years.
  If Iran is days to months away from a nuclear bomb, then for all intents and purposes they already have a nuclear bomb. The fact they don't have a nuclear bomb already despite having 60% enriched uranium for years can only mean that they simply don't want a nuclear bomb.
  The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation.
  The only winning move is diplomacy to prevent nuclear proliferation, aka JOCPA. I wonder how that went. Also I find claims that Iran is so close to a nuclear bomb very doubtful given that they've been around for literal decades.
  
  No, days to months away from weapons grade enriched uranium if they so chose. If you don't trust what the International Atomic Energy Agency has to say about nuclear proliferation from on-site assessments, I guess there's no convincing you of anything else.
  
  they don't want a bomb
  Then why the fuck are they enriching uranium beyond what's necessary for energy purposes?
- Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn't those countries have done it already over the past 50 years?
  Shills straight up denying not just reality but the events they're spewing propaganda about. Gotta love the gung ho 15 year old attitude by people who have managed to lose every engagement they had in Asia since 1945 with even that mostly because they didn't have to worry about the other axis countries. Ever thank China and USSR fot taking care of Japan on the mainland while you were busy drowning and flapping about in the Pacific? No, you recruited Unit 731 criminals instead.
  Anyway reminder for delulu revisionists like you, you tried to dunk on Korea already back when "their regional partner" was vastly weaker than now and failed miserably. You'd have tried it if failing again wasn't inevitable. That's why NK has nukes, not because you supposedly allowed them to have them or were neglectful lmao.
- Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons
  Hmm, that's an interesting argument, but I read something recently that challenges that idea, it was some user who said something like, uhh, "once they do possess one, now your hands are tied."
  Warmongering psycho can't even keep their arguments straight without self-contradicting in the same paragraph.
  How anybody can take these insane positions so casually is beyond my comprehension. No one like you should ever have a voice in politics

Israel - what's with the face?

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/169446?single

Call your rep - demand Israel pay reparations for attacks.

hahaha.
and they are building a "golden dome" with the best possible outcome -> matching Israel's not working net. lmao
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/169440?single

Oh good, someone made a second one of these inane memes
- They're right, cope

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