Call to ban ‘intolerant’ child-free resorts and hotels in France

Even as a parent, I don't like kids who don't behave well and parents who don't help their kids realize what they're doing wrong.

My kids are great, but they're kids; they're gonna be noisy and forget the rules from time to time. And I don't want to ruin someone else's experience. Why people don't understand that is kind of wild.

I am a parent. I have no problem with "adult-only" spaces. I don't bring my kid to a lot of places where it is not appropriate. There are plenty of child-friendly places activities for kids. Yeah, it sucks that I have to make arrangements ahead of time if want to go to an adult-only space, but that's what you do as a responsible parent.

It is only an issue if parents face discrimination for something that actually matters, like access to housing, food, and medical care or career opportunities.

Even parents want a break from kids.

When I was small my parents just didn't bring me to hotels that weren't explicitly for families. Those normal boring grown-up hotels just weren't for us until we were old enough, so we went to the fun hotels with playgrounds. Why can't we go back to that?

And people wouldn't be so annoyed by children if the parents didn't insist that they should be allowed to run around and do whatever they want. It's not just "let me go everywhere with my kids", it's "let me bring my kids and then let them yell and smash things and cry as much as they want because they are kids." There's a nice café in my city where I don't go anymore, because it's full of mothers with their toddlers from the nearby playground who just continue playing as loudly as ever. Last time I went I ended up with sand in my coffee when some kid waved around his toy car that was full of sand from the playground. The mother refused to buy me a new coffee because "he's just a kid". A beach bar by the river actual changed their policy and now refuses entry to children under 12, because it had become too expensive for them to keep replacing food and drinks every time a kid threw the sand around. And of course the parents usually refused to pay for what their kids destroyed.

If parents can't be trusted to make good decisions like "My 4-year-old who can't sit still for more than a minute should not be brought to a spa where people come to relax." or at the very least feel responsible for what they destroy, this is what happens. And if too many parents refuse to pay up when their kid destroys something, owners will prefer to ban kids.

People who say they don't like children are being hated on, but 99% of the time they just don't like children who are allowed to do whatever they want whereever they are and parents who take zero responsibility under the guise of it's just a child.

And the venn of parents who are complaining about the bans and parents who are the reason there are bans is a single circle

We absolutely, positively, one hundred percent need adult only spaces as well. Especially when the goal is to relax.

A lot of parents simply aren’t doing proper parenting. As a child, I was taught not to be a nuisance to others. And those others would also correct said behaviour in kids. But these days? Kids apparently have the right to be as annoying as they can be, and god forbid you tell them to knock it off… the parent actually gets offended!

So parents are really doing this to themselves. And that’s not even mentioning the fact that we have a TON of actual child friendly vacation options. Let the adults have a proper place as well.

And if child free vacationing being on the rise bothers you? Maybe look at your parenting style.

This is basically just the sanitized internet conflict again, only it's the parents wanting to force adult-only spaces to disappear instead of advertisers. What's next, banning gay and lesbian bars for not catering to straight people?

I’m for a ban on children and little yapping dogs

I wouldn't have a problem with this if it weren't for the annoyingly large fraction of parents who let their ill mannered spawn run free and let them do whatever they want.

It's not everyone's thing to be sure, but I started going to a nudist resort largely because of this. I really just wanted a place to go hang out that has a pool that's not overrun with kids.
It is technically a family resort, not too many people actually show up with kids, but there's occasionally a few, and while I don't particularly want to see naked kids (or honestly most of the adults either, nudists are rarely the kinds of people you'd want to see naked,) the parents are obviously keeping an eye on their kids there and keep them under control.
- Did you see any trans or gender non-conforming people there? If so, did you notice whether they were treated well? I want to try one, but I'm pretty obviously trans under my clothes and I don't want weird looks.
Right? That's kind of why they exist.
...or they tell other non-parent adults what they can do or say around their children.
I absolutely agree that certain language and behavior shouldn't be around young children, but then that means there must be child-free places allowed for adults to do these things with other adults.
So the parents should get additional fees for disturbing the peace if the kids go too far?
- No, the parents should find another hotel.
- Would spread the word pretty fast. I get noise complaints and/or fees at home, why are hotels exempt?

No idea what French parents/children are like but across the pond I've had many a good time ruined by children acting way out of line and parents doing nothing at all. I wish there were more explicitly child free attractions here for that reason

Can they not have policies and kick unruly customers out?
- Problem is even I, being a childless bloke and having an intense dislike of loud children, feel for parents who just want to go out and do something they might like for once to have a break. So you’d have to be the minimum wage employee kicking out a parent just trying to relax and get out of the house for once.
  The alternative you’re the minimum wage employee that has to kick out the shit parent who’ll then blow up at you for daring to acknowledge their crotch spawn running around the restaurant fucking up the vibe for everyone else. Right before they lie about it and you on social media.

Calm down Karen it’s ok to have different choices.

Just make clothing optional.

make it a porn hotel then

Swingers Hotel, the logo is a jazz trio and a wink 😉
- *jizz trio

A notable exception to equal opportunity law in the US us that you are allowed to discriminate against an individual on the basis of their age, as long as it's not old age.

Split it up so there's a family-friendly section and an adults-only section. Adults-only section can have the bar (adults in family-friendly section can still order a drink, it just has to be brought over). Family-friendly section has a play place. Each side has a pool.

As a parent, that's actually genius.
- Just describing something some restaurants do already, and applying it to a hotel << >>

No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fine, is not like I was going to a resort in France anyways.

I'm all for this ban.

The kind of people that can't tolerate having children around in a resort or hotel deserve to get upset.

Fuck them.

I’m curious. Wouldn’t you want those intolerant people who don’t want children around to stay nice and far away from you? Like… say… at their own hotel where you don’t have to interact with them?
- Nope.
I like children; I attended my 6-year-old niece's birthday party yesterday and had a great time. I don't like unruly children whose parents allow them to run amok and screech like a banshee at all hours.
You can only be woken up by screaming so many times before you lose your patience. I stayed at a hotel for a single week for work and was woken up before 6 AM by kids yelling for no reason 3 mornings out of 5. It wasn't even at a resort.
- God forbid you ever want to spend a little time in that hotel pool, either. It'll be occupied literally at all hours by those loud-ass kids.

Just generally ban 'em bloody children and that's it. Who needs them anyway - except bigots in patriarchist male-female relations and fucking libtards who think they have the right to flood the nation with their godless spawn?

An excellent example of Poe's law right here. Bravo.
It's always the biggest, dumbest losers that jerk themselves off over their hatred of kids.
I use it as yet another litmus test to differentiate myself from dipshits and scumbags at this point.
- Imagine having to define who you are based on other people's words and actions... Sounds shitty.

considers

So, I think that there's a valid point here that the state has an interest in facilitating child-rearing, and that that's an externality. The hotel can cause harm if people rely on hotels and child-free hotels price out child-permitting hotels.

Hmm.

I can think of a lot of problems.

If a hotel or other service wants to only provide adult access, I can imagine a whole lot of loopholes. That is, I don't think that France is going to disallow keeping children away from random thing that social norms don't want children to have, like alcohol (well, okay, this is France, so the bar might be somewhat lower). I mean, have hotel, have attached strip joint, whatever it takes; there are going to be some things that I imagine that France is going to permit as grounds for excluding children. It seems hard to make a blanket prohibition that would stop all this.

On the other hand, it also seems like in many situations, it'd be possible to let people who do want to be be away from children to have that as an option without creating issues for other users.

Maybe it'd be possible to have a best-effort attempt by hotels to simply place people and people without children together? I mean, that might get one most of the way there.

Also...is this presently causing actual problems? I mean, maybe the market will supply what the consumer wants. Hotels and apartments that don't allow cats and/or dogs are a thing (well, in the US, and I assume France), and it doesn't seem like that's created fundamental issues.

kagis

It sounds like there are hotels here in California that prohibit kids and hotels that provide babysitting as a service to guests. It seems like the market has provided in that case.

Maybe first see if this is definitely an issue, and if so, do some kind of targeted mandate? Like, I totally appreciate that maybe a hotel might be the only place in a remote area, and if it's adults-only, that creates problems, because it's the only option...and if it soaks up all the adults-only customers, that might prevent an adults-and-kids service from entering the market. But...I can also imagine that it might just not come up, because hotels in that kind of situation don't want to sacrifice customers with kids.

Maybe a rule that your hotel can be child-free, if after your hotel has been defined as such, 80 % of hotel capacity in the area is still accessible for families. It's also not okay that a family cannot visit some area because all hotels there are child-free, but as a parent of two children, I can absolutely understand why someone might not want them around. I love them, so them waking up at 5:30 and causing moderate amounts of unavoidable noise is okay with me. But I can absolutely understand it's not okay with everyone. There are people who want to sleep at least until 6 in the morning (and probably all the way to 12...), and I think they must have a right for that! When in a hotel or similar, I of course do my best to make sure in different ways that my children will not make other guests' lives miserable, but sometimes they still behave as if they were kids. Because they are.