If fossil fuels aren't vegan that would mean almost nobody is actually vegan.
If fossil fuels aren't vegan that would mean almost nobody is actually vegan.
82 comments
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Labor exploitation isn't vegan. Vegans are doing the best they can, better than me.
Bacon vegans are the most nonsensical
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We do the best we can to reduce harm and suffering.
Modern life is not vegan by nature, human infrastructure destroys animal habitats, human pollution is destroying the planet. Our species is responsible for the deaths of trillions of animals. Our existence is complicity.
Doing what I can to avoid consuming products of animal suffering is never going to be enough to counteract the majority of humans who revel in it. Especially as it's them who've built/control/condone the broken systems this world is running on and will be ending due to.
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Oil is vegan, though.
It's made from the remains of dead plants.
Also, I'm not sure how vegans view corpses of animals.
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Also, I'm not sure how vegans view corpses of animals.
Like a dead cow, chicken, or pig? Probably not favorably.
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I'd argue the extraction, refinement and typical uses of petroleum oil are somewhat not-vegan.
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Vegan has always been about doing the best you can in reducing the harm you do onto others and the environment as much your able to. Some vegans absolutely will refuse the use of petrol but most will see it as a current necessary evil they have to deal with and just reduce when able to in their current modern lives.
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Non-vegans have a really hard time understanding veganism, huh?
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They willfully refuse to try and understand, then we get posts like this every two weeks.
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It's like explaining free software to someone who only uses apple products.
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looool
how do you know if someone hates vegans?
don't worry they'll tell you
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OMG I'm totally using this from now on. 😆
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people fucking love to do these gotchas against anyone for even fucking trying, don't they
well congrats, you did it, you convinced all of us to compromise on our principles
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Interesting thought, but humans didn't harm the life that became fossil fuels, most of which came from plant matter anyway. I'm not in a position to unilaterally declare something vegan, but I'm pretty sure fossil fuels are vegan by default.
Sure, its use can harm animals. Still, I could kill a mouse with a cucumber, but it wouldn't change the fact that cucumbers are vegan.
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Hmmm… but taking your argument to the opposite end; the normal consumption of a cucumber may not typically harm animals but I think there is an argument to be had that the normal consumption, and production, of fossil fuels typically does.
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It's a common viewpoint among vegans that systems that depend on animal exploitation should be abolished. On the other hand, systems that contain animal exploitation should be improved.
I'll give two examples with human animals so it can be clear: Slavery? Should be abolished. People getting ran over and killed by cars? We should improve that.
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Is any of what you are saying material though?
It's kind of revelatory that vegan is a shifting term, that means whatever it wants to mean for the believer.
I tell vegans all the time that in order to have their potato chips brought to them, first they have to have millions of hectares of fields destroyed, planted with a monoculture potato crop, sprayed with pesticides, harvested by diesel equipment, made in a factory with pollutants, placed on trucks which ship all over the country.
Swallow a fly, oh my God the world is ending. Kill a couple thousand things on the way to get your vegan chips, let's not talk about that.
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Well that's... needlessly hostile?
Vegans are aware of the damage the supply chain does, hence "buy local" being such a common phrase and the push to support small local farms. I'm not sure what you're accomplishing besides hilighting that capitalism is an awful economic structure that incentivises profit over environment, which sure good message, but most people choosing to adopt such a culturally despised practice are going to be aware of the externalities already.
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It's kind of revelatory that vegan is a shifting term, that means whatever it wants to mean for the believer.
Really? It’s not new, at least. Vegans love to disagree about what specific things are vegan- some are cool with honey, some are cool with nestle products made without animal products, and some are cool with anything they don’t pay for. Many aren’t cool with any of that, but don’t think twice about killing a mosquito in their home.
It’s an individual choice and you’ve got to decide what you care about and prioritize that.
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This is like banning H₂O, NaCl and C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁ from your life because "you don't like chemicals".
(Water, Salt and Sugar)
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My sister had a freak out and told me she would never allow chemicals on her lawn. I said what about nitrogen?
NO FUCKING WAY
I followed up by asking her what she thinks our breathable atmosphere is made of, and what is captured by the rain and falls on her grass?
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
I told her no, I don't, because when you just make up imaginary definitions for words, no one can ever know what you mean.
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This is a pretty dumb hill to die on. If someone says "chemicals on their lawn" it's pretty clear they mean lawn treatment services.
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You sound fun
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Oil is actually primarily formed from algae, not dinosaurs, so it should qualify.
Coal is plant matter, so it also qualifies.
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Even if it was dinosaurs, the dinosaurs weren't harvested, much less exploited, in any way. They died of natural causes. Hell, even if the aliens decided to farm them and we used what remained it still wouldn't be exploiting them since it's more akin to scavenging.
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This is shifting blame. Fossil fuels are vegan in the sense of origin, however the harm done to the biosphere in using them is not vegan. Therefore a vegan using fossil fuels in a dependent society is to blame.
Sure. It's not the much higher percentage of people participating in this, it's the vegans. At least they're making attempts to change, unlike the rest of us.
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Depends on whether you're talking about oil/gas or coal. The former is dead marine fauna (edit: and flora), the latter is dead terrestrial flora.
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Coal is from woody (containing lignin) plants. I think oil/gas is from algal mats.
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Oh yes good point. I guess flora and fauna are confusing terms in this context. Wiki talks of zooplankton and algae.
(The "zooplankton part" might still be relevant to the original post.)
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I drive an EV and my electricity's 100% renewable.
Your move. :)
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Is the food you eat farmed with tractors and transported in semis?
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Are people not allowed to better themselves in your world without 100% total perfection? It's about doing our best in the world we live in, man. It seems like you're committed to misunderstanding that, sadly.
Context: am not a vegan, but I strongly believe that perfection is the enemy of progress. Moreover, attitudes like this conveniently excuse folks from doing anything to better themselves or the world around them because "it's hopeless" or "nothing I do will change anything".
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I didn't know this post was made by satan.
You seem like a generally reasonable dude, hopefully you will be able to learn how your misconceptions about veganism and eating meat are just that: misconceptions.
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Vegan? Probably. But it is 100% Organic.
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Actually 🤓, the refining process for many fossil fuel products requires the use of inorganic chemicals AND are proven to be hazardous to human health meaning they can’t even fit the US “Organic” certification. (Though I suppose the oil industry has enough money to
bribelobby the regulators)Now if you meant “organic” strictly as in “the final product is a purely hydrocarbon compound” then you’re correct, assuming you’ve entirely distilled out any metals or other inorganic compounds of course.
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If the baseline vegan precept is no animal products of any kind, then I would agree nobody is actually vegan
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The commonly accepted definition is summarized by the Vegan Society:
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
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Can a vegan eat a carnivorous plant?
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They probably won't because I think they'd taste disgusting.
I'd try one if I knew it wasn't poisonous tho.
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Bladderworts have medicinal uses.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3353273/
3.2. Potential as Medicinal Crop Utricularia is recorded to be edible and high in nutrients. Some species used as folk remedies are mildly astringent and diuretic. U. caerulea is used to dress wounds while U. bifida is used to treat urinary diseases. Although yet to be widely researched, the medicinal potential of this species-rich genus is immense. In Peninsular Malaysia, U. bifida and U. minutissima are pioneers of open disturbed wetland and are often locally abundant, although U. caerulea is increasingly rare. U. bifida is highly suited for acidic damp soils. Neither chemical nor organic fertilisation is necessary. It can be cultivated without having to modify bad drainage or liming the soil to increase pH, therefore, it is a suitable alternative for small-scale herb cultivation on nutrient-poor, waterlogged soils.
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I really don't get why people hate tomatoes.
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82 comments
Ok buddy.