We Must Break The Chains

Hopping Linux phones gets a spot this decade.

We need to talk about them more. A lot of the time when developers go through the efforts of actually building apps rarely do they receive attention. It causes the feelings of “why continue this if nobody else cares.”
Artists want their works appreciated.
I Hope you are right. A european "Android" would be nice.

Please let me know viable options.

There are no realistic linux options for your phone. These memes are pipe dreams by people that haven't actually looked at how utterly incapable linux currently is at powering a smart phone for normal daily use and how these apps that they're complaining about android and apple are removing won't run on the linux phone in the first place.
- Sounds like switching will mean we will lose everything we're already losing. Might as well go ahead and quit cold turkey.
- There's options, yes. Ubuntu Touch is getting better.
  AFAIK, the main bottleneck (aside from hardware support) is a working open source IMS stack. IMS is the IP Multimedia Subsystem that is responsible for things like VoLTE/VoWIFI, SMS/MMS, etc. The last time I looked at Ubuntu Touch, it only supported baseband (not sure if that's the right term?) calls and SMS/MMS. Basically those only work in "3G" mode and won't work if your carrier requires VoLTE.
  Lack of an open source IMS is also problematic for some other Android distros as well (and why flashing a newer GSI ROM to an older handset won't necessarily give you VoLTE).
  And don't even get me started on the complete fustercluck that is RCS 😠
- That's funny I've had several Android apps run fine under Linux mobile OSes.
  I'm not going to say they're ready for general public daily use but there's no reason they one day couldn't be? There's a foundation there. With a good enthusiast community we could get it to the point that it's at least useable for power users and grow from there.
- All dreams start as pipe dreams. Every one.
- UBPorts is a solid foundation. It just needs more adoption and backing.
Get a Pixel 8 or 9 and install GrapheneOS. The recent changes to AOSP aren't some death knell for the project. Even if it were: using GOS on an older Pixel for the next five years or so is going to be way safer than alternatives.
I'll grant that whether or not this matters to someone depends on their personal threat model. My counter argument is to gesture broadly at the state of things. If they think the computing device they use most often shouldn't be their most reasonably secured and trustworthy computer then I'm not sure there's much else to discuss on the topic.
I want to be able to recommend any of the Linux phone projects or even something like Murena's new partnership with HIROH but they don't solve the problems GrapheneOS does.
The best breakdown of current options I've found is here: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
- Moving to phones made by google as a protest against google really seems weird. Sorry, but I will stick to the less secure options
- Cool, but in my country when O find a used pixel 8 it usually costs around 700 USD! Too much for the hardware..
https://pine64.org/devices/pinephone/ https://jolla.com/
I haven't used either of those directly but have started looking into linux on a tablet (Plasma mobile mainly) and things are definitely rough... nowhere near the polish of Android or iOS (understandably) and the app store options are not great / hacky
I'm just getting into things here, but my guess is that if you want to try a linux phone, if you're OK living in a world that's closer to the first days of smartphones than the current fairly-advanced smartphone, you might only be slightly or mildly frustrated. If you're looking for a modern smartphone experience, you're probably going to have a bad time.
That said, the lack of viable options for smartphones is terrible and it's somewhere I'd like to invest some time contributing to open-source projects to improve

I'm beginning to think that my next phone will be a (relatively) dumb phone that can do bluetooth + wifi tethering to a small linux tablet.

It’s hard to find even a flip phone that doesn’t have a GPS antenna that you aren’t allowed to shut off.
- You know you have to connect to cell towers right?
Some tablets and laptops have a SIM-slot, which makes it possible to use a dataSIM. Then it has access to internet independent of your phone.

What about dumb phone hardware that can be connected to micro PCs? Like literally a basic as basic can be phone. Then jack that into a basic small computer to supply data/SMS connection. Think the size of a clutch, wallet or smaller?

I know it's not the most practical option, but it would be a literal computer. Linux, Windows or otherwise. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Could be cool. Idk. Like a gun shoulder holster or something.

Or maybe I'm dumb.

i'v been considering just getting a steam deck and carrying around some gsm router or something to turn it into my own hotspot/phone

First of all we need a way to install linux on android phones. They're literally souped-up Raspberry-Pis with battery backups.

i don't think they are ready though.

It's sort of a paradox. Low adoption leads to less resources, bug reports, developer interest, etc. and that in turn leads to low adoption.
What works for me is daily driving my linux phone, and having a used regular smartphone sitting in a drawer, turned off, until I absolutely need to run an app that is not compatible with Waydroid.
- maybe for enthusiasts, but the average person isn't making bug reports.
- i would 100% own a big tablet like this to use at home, at the right price.
  but then i remember i can more easily just get a used touchscreen laptop and install linux on that instead.
- Desktop Linux has the same problem, developer starts and app then burns out and drops it.

Why not much development with newer hardwares? Most devices are 2021 or older

I think because how the older devices function is more well documented.

It's been years, and I still miss windowsphone so much. I knew we were fucked when they axed it and iPhone and android were already starting to stall out with a duopoly.

At one point, we had blackberry, some form of meego, Windowsphone, android and iOS, as well as niche things like jolla and sailfish.

Eh? Microsoft and Windowsphone basically killed the only real alternative to Android and iOS when they did their hostile takeover of Nokia, and Windowsphone itself was an atrocity that luckily died rather quickly.
- Windowsphone itself was an atrocity that luckily died rather quickly.
  "Tell me you never used Windows Phone without telling me you never used Windows Phone"

My plan going forward is to either make or buy a basic small cyberdeck type system. Using my phone as basically little more than a glorified cellular modem. Or for isolated calls or SMS.

Looking at investing in and setting up some mesh halow infrastructure at home and a couple other places to reduce the need for the cellular modem part a bit more.

Hear me out; steam deck as a phone. WE CAN BRING BACK SIDETALKING
- You jest. But those of us born in the 70s and before have first-hand knowledge of this magic device.
  Behold! 30 minutes of total talk time, with no curly cords or anything!
  LOL a Steam Deck isn't even that absurd.
- Bring actual steam games to phones!
I just need two things myself. SMS and phone. Maps would be nice, but I can use an old phone for that.
A cyberdeck with just VOIP/SMS would be awesome.
- Even something arm-based, like a Raspberry Pi, can still run a KDE instance and allow you to connect to your phone through KDE Connect. There's definitely a lot of possibility there, as long as you're willing to keep around an old non-flag-ship phone as a modem.
Maybe check out the Pocket Reform and look into WWAN modules with SIM cards that have service in your geographical area.

So is there any mobile OS out there you could confidently recommend as a daily driver?

Nope. Go back to dumb phones and carry laptop for stuff you'd need smartphone for.
- Does not work for everything.
  In my country we use an app to identify ourselves online but also in a shop, e.g. when picking up packages. It is called BankID.
  Many of these purposes would not work on a laptop and if they do it would require you to use their proprietary dongle, or whatever that is called, to input a certain code. So you got another extra device to carry around.
  These guys won't give a fuck about making a linux compatible app for this.
For some people Ubuntu Touch or FuriOS (Droidian) might do it, but there is no option that covers each an every daily driver use-case, so there isn't really an answer for your question (iOS for example doesn't cover my daily driver use-case at all).
- Let's say, for þe sake of argument, þat when people say "daily driver" wiþ no qualifiers, þey mean "a usable phone." A smart phone, too, usually, but at þe very least just a basic phone.
  be able to make and receive phone calls, reliably.
  be able to SMS.
  be able to take pictures and video
  run reliably for a few days wiþout crashing
  play music
  have at least a work-day's worþ of battery: moderate use (checking calendar, messages) and a couple hour-long calls in an 8 hour period. No crazy stuff like YouTube binges, or 3D gaming sessions - just basic phone use
  Þese are þe basics of a "daily driver" for most of þe world: if it can't do at least þese, it fails. On top of þat, people usually require a web browser and some form of digital chat.
  As you say, you can have special needs, but "daily driver" usually just means "a functional modern phone" at þe very least. Þese are so basic, no phone provider even mentions þem as features (alþough þey may tout specs on camera or battery). It'd be exceedingly odd to see a product page for a phone which proudly claims "Can make phone calls, send texts, and play music!"
I think that right now the best option is probably sailfish. Although I haven't tried it in years, I have just been following the topic since then. PostmarketOS is cool but I haven't tried it, would like to. UB ports is probably also worth looking into. Hardware is going to matter, these projects typically target a few devices.
- The developers could target more devices if people actually donate enough to the projects since they could buy more phones to code and test for. As there’s a lot of reversing engineering being done on modems.
  Winks at sidebar resources.
No. I'd probably use FuriOS and Furilab's phone if/when GrapheneOS becomes unviable. It's not great but if you're a nerd you can wrangle it.
It can also run Android APK in a container. Though I'm not sure if that remains true if Google locks things down. That and a lot of projects will die off when F-Droid goes down with them anyways.
No, but it's Linux or you walk.
There’s Graphene.
- That's... android?

are the prices affordable ?

Yes, because you can buy used phones that have unlocked bootloaders to install a distro.
- sorry I'm asking a lot, but does there happen to be a wiki or list of such devices ? What should I buy if I ever (rn I don't have a mobile, only a computer with Ubuntu MATE)

I want one. I wish any had great hardware. Like Snapdragon 8 gen 3 level soc

To add why I want great hardware. A Linux phone needs a mainstream draw and I think gaming can be it. What I see on Android going on with GameFusion and Winlator, with a real Linux phone, such a thing could be way more streamlined especially if such a device draws in way more interest in open source drivers for mobile GPUs - Adreno, Mali, PowerVR.
Besides that, I think there needs to be some default apps that are good even if not Libre or whatever. By default some company should come out with a phone that has Flathub(something that filters to applications that they declare they're mobile disaply and touchscreen friendly), Signal, Element (something Matrix to replace Discord), and the basic applications things come with. Gallery, dialer, SMS/MMS/RCS application, camera, calendar, email client etc. The application store needs to facilitate payments in some way. Whether it's crypto or paypal or GNU Taler or whatever. Facilitate developers to have a path to get paid for their work
Right now the only company coming close to having the software services is Proton. Company with hardware clout it missing. Don't know if Valve would ever consider doing something with Plasma Mobile seeing as SteamOS already ships with KDE Plasma. That would be the dream. Ship it with Steam configured with FEX/proton
- Steam phone when? 🤩
- I wasn't on board with your original comment until this one... Well put.

I find it amusing that I don't "sideload" at all on my linux phone, rather, basically everything I want is already in the repos.

Which linux phone do you use?
- A Oneplus 6 running PostmarketOS.

I still have high hopes for the Open WebOS project.

WebOS was amazing. I didn't know what performance was until I touched a WebOS phone
- What I loved most about WebOS was that their games ran flawlessly on my Nokia N900.

"Corporate needs you to install this app on your phone..."

Then buy me a phone to install it on. No way I'm putting corporate anything on my personal.
- Damn right. I won't even give my personal number out to my colleagues.
- "None of my other subordinates had a problem with this, it's a simple ask and only takes a minute."

If the big problem is licensing proprietary protocols, wht not just make pirate distros?

Fully anonymous open source development is viable. This could happen. If done well, it could be a very good OS due to being able to do things without license concerns. The problem is: using it wouldn't be legal. Disguise mode to seem like other OS?
- Use KDE. It looks like KDE.
  Edit: point is cops dont even know what Linux is, and I, a Linux user, can't ID a distro just by looking at GUI unless it's got a logo showing.

Is pinephone still an option? I never got one, any alternatives?

Lol no, the pinephone had an allwinter processor that would have been fine in ~2014, cant speak to the specs of the pinephone pro, but I would imagine they were better.
The issues with the model I had were mostly hardware related. The expectation of "it just works" are being completed for the linux desktop enviroments now-ish. I have not played with my pinephone in a long while, but linux phones should still be a few years behind.
- I have the original PinePhone lying around, it was honestly already a piece of crap when it came out. Laggy to all hell for me with horrible battery life. Maybe it's gotten better since then, but I can't recommend it

I can’t wait to no longer be forced to use the robber baron apple’s AppStore.

to the dismay of the stans, all sorts of cool "subversive" stuff will start popping up on iphones!

Also I swear to god my iPhone deletes notes I’ve made after they get too old or seemingly at random. Which is SO FUCKING AGGRAVATING AND MAKES ME FEEL LIKE MY PHONE IS GASLIGHTING ME.

There’s the FOSS alternative Fsnotes.
Oof that’d be troublesome. Have come to rely on Notes search, not frequently, but from time to time—and it’s gotta work. Based on the single unique word I remember, often.
Thinking about backup solutions that could prove it for ya one way or another but might be a little manual - Notes exports aren’t super straightforward. Would help degaslight eh?
- I put all my passwords for shit in my notes. And I get so angry when I search it and it tells me it’s not there.

Meanwhile Linux phone with zero apps 🙄

Every app ecosystem needs early adopters
Both factually incorrect and besides the point.
You can use waydroid to use android and its app ecosystem until the Linux app ecosystem catches up, and there's work being done on an android translation layer to just run the apps without the full android OS running.
The problem right now is the hardware and drivers, there's isn't many phones out there that 100% work. There's a few commercial options like Librem and FuriLabs phones but other than that, most of the options from postmarketOS have something not working like calls, or camera, or audio, etc. The fairphone 5 seems well supported by Ubuntu touch right now, but if I'm reading the page right, Ubuntu touch doesn't support VoLTE yet, so I can't use it in the US.
https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/fp5/release/noble/
"

Global issues The issues listed below are present in most or all of the devices depending on the technology they are built on. Incoming, outgoing calls Calling over VoLTE is not supported, please check that this is not a requirement in your country. Halium and Legacy ports"
- There are users of the FP5 in areas where VoLTE is required now, including the US (though not on all carriers, as I understand it). VoLTE is enabled on an experimental basis for several devices. There are a few quirks to iron out, but it's coming!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQTXawaAKNA

Supply side attackers giving them both a big bearhug

This is similar to telling people to stop advocating people using Linux on their computers and just use WSL in windows if you want Linux. You don't have the same level of control and privacy, freedom, features etc. Also you're beholden to the host OS for updates and security, etc. I'd MUCH rather Linux on bare metal, in both cases my computer and my phone. And yah you can make the point that a Linux phone is definitely less secure than android at this point but in the future when its more mature, I'm sure people will focus on tweaking security to fill the security holes.
I've been using GrapheneOS myself for a while now, and I love it! However, isn't the concern here that these AOSP changes might negatively affect all the Android forks as well?
- Yeah, GOS and all other forks run the risk of getting shafted by Google if they implement some evil ass "feature" upstream that breaks something GOS needs.
  They are planning to move away from the Linux kernel in the far future, so hopefully that also means their going to move away from Google too.
  also I use GOS too c:
GrapheneOS is at Google's mercy. They were alarmed when google changed the way they released the source code for the pixel 10 recently, and while they ultimately were able to deal with the change, it's causing them a lot if extra work.
If google ever wanted to, they could completely screw over Graphene, since Graphene is ultimately reliant on Google playing ball.
A pure Linux phone would not be reliant on a big corporation to exist.
android is controlled with an iron grip by google, not unlike chromium. there can alwas be shenanigans. graphene and lineage are nice, but we need something truly ours.
i agree that linux isn't ready for phones, and it won't be for a while.
That's not happening, you're obviously deleting them yourself.
/s