1 yr. ago • 77%

The Linux Foundation has become a patent troll

bladerunner.social Steve Lord (@stevelord@bladerunner.social)

Attached: 1 image Hey @linuxfoundation@social.lfx.dev why are you sending takedowns on redbubble for generic Unix terms and project names you don't own?

It seems that the Linux Foundation has decided that both "systemd" and "segmentation fault" (lol?) are trademarked by them.

73 comments

“Patent troll” and “required actions to preserve trademarks” are two totally different things. The former is objectively bad in all ways. The second is explainable if there truly is a trademark and said gear infringes on the trademark and may be excusable if the Linux Foundation is forced to act to preserve their branding (trademark law is weird). It’s even more explainable if this is a shitty auto filter some paralegal had to build without any technical review because IP law firms are hot fucking mess. I’m also very curious to see the original graphics which I couldn’t find on Mastodon. If they are completely unrelated and there was an explicit action by someone who knew better, the explanation provides no excuse.

Attacking any company because the trademark process is stupid doesn’t accomplish much more than attacking someone paying taxes for participating in capitalism.

128
- Why does the Linux Foundation even have a trademark process for "segmentation fault"? According to the poster on Mastodon, these words were the whole design.
  
  46
  
  Just like champagne only comes from the champagne region of France, true segmentation fault only comes from a linux program shitting itself.
  
  94
  
  Segmentation fault is the name of the artwork.
  
  The artwork itself might contain the Linux logo
  
  21
  
  Doing a search on the USPTO shows no mark for that combination of words. Did the poster share the design? Because either there’s more to the story on their side or there’s more to the Linux Foundation side. For example, an overworked paralegal with no concept of what terms to include. Alternatively, someone being an asshole with a SLAPP suit. We need more information.
  
  15
  
  You can look trademarks up. They don’t.
  
  There is more to the story, even if it’s just some overzealous bot or contracted company.
  
  9
  
  They might not; that is just the title of the art. The art could have other infringing content.
  
  5
  
  Does the back include Linux logo or smth? Otherwise it makes no sense
  
  1
- sdfasfasdfasdf
  
  6
  
  My comment contains “if” because, speaking from professional expertise, there is a good possibility this is happening because of either a legal agreement I don’t have insight into so I can’t comment on or because of incompetence. It could also be happening from malice which, imo, is the kind of SLAPP bullshit Nintendo is deservedly attacked for. I’m not trying fanboy anything here; I’m just saying we need more information for pitchforks. The Linux Foundation has my implicit assumption of positive intent (unlike, say, Nintendo), so I’m willing to wait and see what happened here before I start attacking The Linux Foundation for something we have a screenshot from Mastodon on.
  
  If you believe my professional opinion is wrong, I would love to learn more about why.
  
  2
The trademarks owned by the Linux Foundation are listed here: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/legal/trademarks Neither "systemd" or "segmentation fault" are listed. Something smells funky here.

99
- Can a third party lodge a complaint and claim to be acting on behalf of The Linux Foundation? Maybe someone is trolling here.
  
  44
  
  That's what I was thinking as well. I don't know if it's possible.
  
  9
  
  Isn't that what copyright/patent trolls are? People who lodge complaints on the behalf of others, regardless of whether or not the original owner of the intellectual property actually cares, or in some cases, even is legally allowed to do so? If it's the original owner, then it's usually just considered to be protecting property.
  
  1
  
  Yes if they have standing.
  
  -1
I have rather serious doubts that this is legit. More likely some joker pretending to be from the Linux Foundation sent Redbubble a takedown request.

62
- I agree. Of the 188 marks registered to "The Linux Foundation" with the USPTO, there does not appear to be a mark for "systemd", "fsck", or "segmentation fault." My guess is this is an imposter claim and the artist should counter notice this claim to Redbubble.
  
  FWIW (and assuming the link works) here's the marks ever registered to the Linux Foundation.
  
  https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4808%3Azqagnv.27.1&p_search=searchstr&BackReference=&p_L=500&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=Linux&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24ON&expr=PARA1+and+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Foundation&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24ON&a_default=search&f=toc&state=4808%3Azqagnv.27.1&a_search=Submit+Query
  
  21
The complaint is not about the terms "systemd" and "segmentation fault." Those are the titles of the affected artworks. Presumably the artworks themselves contain some trademarked property.

Also, this is utterly unrelated to patents.

57
- The content isn't anything to write home about. I don't really get it.
  
  26
  
  Thanks for finding these. I couldn't see them, so I assumed they were removed in response to the complaint.
  
  You're right, there doesn't appear to be anything here to object to.
  
  5
- I can understand Systemd being trademarked, but does the Linux Foundation own the trademark for Systemd..? Surely not. I'd think Red Hat before I thought Linux Foundation.
  
  3
this has nothing even remotely to do with patents, fam

but it is indeed bullshit.

the purpose of a "trademark" is to prevent the public from being deceived about what they're purchasing, so you can't sell "Big Macs" on your own because the public might be deceived into thinking they were purchasing a product from McDonalds, which (I assume) has trademarked the use of "Big Mac" for fast food.

I HIGHLY doubt the Linux Foundation owns the trademark for "Segmentation Fault" with respect to random merch, so... yeah 100% bullshit

(The image does also say "Linux IP" in addition to "Linux Trademark" and I wonder what the hell that is supposed to mean, since "IP" covers a multitude of dissimilar things, maybe it's just a vague handwavy assertion they make in order to make a takedown without particularly justifying it?)

44
- Funny you should use Big Mac as an example, since McDonalds actually lost that trademark in Europe due to some legal dispute with a pub in Ireland or something
  
  5
Ok but redbubble is fucking infamous for selling merch with blatantly stolen artwork and logos.

36
- They may act on behalf of others.
  
  2
  
  Well yes, its a storefront where anyone can sell "their" designs for a cut, the thing is, redbubble has basically no process for making sure that's all happening above board.
  
  13
Are we certain this complaint was lodged by the Linux Foundation? Frequently DMCA takedowns happen because someone who is not the original rights holder made the complaint. Even when there's no actual rights being violated. Essentially people taking advantage of automated systems or just people not wanting to deal with possible legal issues, trolling of a different sort.

34
Great, now we need to start The Linix Foundation

29
- OpenLinux
  
  15
- "LibreLinux Foundation"
  
  14
- You can still get Linux 11 Home Edition free if you're a student or first-responder.
  
  9
  
  What you're referring to as "Linux" is actually " [RedHat|Canonical|]/Linux"
  
  8
  
  I hope my license will activate, I'm building a secure disconnected node so I'll have to call the phone activation service.
  
  1
- We need PipedLinux.
  
  1
I'm interested to hear your novel theories about how trademarks and patents are related

15
- It's called the "US Patent and Trademark Office", so they must be basically the same thing, right‽
  
  4
- They can't until their patent is granted for it 😂
  
  4
That's stupid. Can they not just focus on whatever their purpose is?

12
- I think the problem is that just like you (and me), they might not know what their purpose is. 😂
  
  14
The Linuses (Lini?) just can't stop screwing up this week.

12
"Linux" is owned by Linus Torvalds. Can he ask this foundation to change its name ?

9
- Yes, but some funding for Linux (some of which goes directly to Torvalds) comes from the Linux Foundation, so why would he?
  
  1
You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain.

6
WTF!

6
Well, good for them that are happy with the segmentation fault (?) Every time I see it I start screaming

3
Maybe it's about this stuff? duckduckgo search

Link to poster

2
again and again: systemd is wrong. lennart poettering and redhat broke the dogma. if you use systemd you should have edge as your main browser.

-23
- systemd had problems when it was first introduced, but it works much better now and it's not going away. I would suggest to revisit it again.
  
  6
  
  so arch you say?
  
  1
- False equivalence. Edge isn't FOSS. Systemd is.
  
  Any forks of systemd will have to be renamed to something obviously different from plain “systemd”, but forks already work that way. We are not, for example, using “XFree86” even though the current X Window System is derived from XFree86 code.
  
  Nor must the program files (shell commands, etc) be renamed. OpenSSH still uses the program file name ssh for compatibility, despite “SSH” being a trademark belonging to someone else.
  
  The only dogma systemd has broken is that booting has to be slow, complicated, and unreliable. Good riddance.
  
  5
  
  The only dogma systemd has broken is that booting has to be slow, complicated, and unreliable.
  
  This was a solved problem before systemd was a thing. And, even if we assumed that Upstart (2006), OpenRC (2007) and others wouldn't have existed in 2010: How often do you need to reboot your system before the intrusiveness of systemd is worth it?
  
  -1

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