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  • Is this trying to say people who support the most successful AES state and largest democracy in the world are not real marxists, but people who just believe western propoganda with rascist characteristics are the true marxists?

  • So, instead of rehashing the same old talking points for the upteenth time, would anyone be interested in discussing China's political project in a broader and more mature way? Like for example:

    • Who do you think should've come to power following the fall of the Qing, through to the civil war (if not the CPC)?
    • Do you agree with the direction of Deng's economic reforms and opening up to foreign investment? If not, should he have stayed closer to Mao's policies, or should he have gone further towards liberalization, or something else?
    • What aspects or projects of the CPC have been good or successful?
    • What aspects or projects of the CPC have been flawed or unsuccessful?
    • What lessons can be learned from the successes and failures of the CPC?

    Ngl I don't have high hopes for this comment but I'm tryin' over here.

    • i am once again relieved that

      libs are too lazy and ignorant to investigate anything beyond the ccp bad that msm tells them, and that chinese libs hate themselves too much to think themselves worthy of educating their
      lib betters about cpc atrocity conspiracy theories.

      though tbf at least shit like tiananmen is falsifiable, i think i'd have an aneurysm if white people on the internet started telling me that mao never left his palanquin and ate the PLA's entire stock of chicken over the course of the long march. like big spoon stalin but in earnest

      • I have a friend from China who's a lib and he's probably one of the most racist people I know (specifically against Chinese people). Just the other day he said Chinese people have never invented anything and that good inventions can only come from the US or Europe. He also wants to look, sound, and dress like an Ivy-league country club dude. Dude regularly reminds me of a Chinese Uncle Ruckus. Is that kind of self-hating common or is it mostly because he's from a rich family?

      • Yeah it's like, typing this out really drew my attention to how much conversations about China are dominated by random noise that's largely insignificant or bullshit. It's always this 24 hour news coverage level of analysis, with no actual study of history or major trends and themes. Hell I realized myself the other day that there were two leaders between Deng and Xi who I couldn't name and know basically nothing about.

        I think that most people fall into certain ideological traps that allow them to simplify narratives to the point of never really feeling the need to study anything, in part because the world is just so big that it's hard to actually be informed about things. You never have to decide how you feel about specific events in China's history if you just scream "CHINA BAD" every time it comes up, and that's a whole lot of history you never have to bother learning now.

    • :::spoiler I'll offer my own answers as well.

      1. The CPC
      2. I agree, though I think it may have gone too far. Allowing billionaires is a dangerous gambit due to the possibility of them gaining political influence, and allowing landlords was a mistake. However, these reforms have helped lift 800 million people out of extreme poverty and were necessary at the time.
      3. Land reform, the Barefoot Doctors program, Deng's reforms, and the Belt and Road initiative have all been very successful and increased the standards of living for an enormous number of people. The CPC has had a focus on improving the lives of their poorest people, and in that regard they've done a very good job.
      4. The Great Leap Forward, the Sino-Soviet split, the Cultural Revolution, LGBT rights, and past China's foreign policy such as supporting Pol Pot/the Khemer Rouge and invading Vietnam. A lot of the blame for the Sino-Soviet split lies with Khrushchev, but I think there's enough blame to go around. I think the Soviet policy of "peaceful co-existence" was more correct, and more in line with what China ended up doing anyway (libs will roast me for that, I'm sure). Some positive things did happen during the Cultural Revolution (such as the above-mentioned Barefoot Doctors program), but generally it was a chaotic mess and I'm not sure it accomplished very much. The GLF had a lot of factors, including the Sino-Soviet split, but there's plenty of blame to ascribe to Mao (the sparrows did not, in fact, deserve it)
      5. Kind of trite but one take-away is "seek truth from facts." When Mao was successful, it was because of his experience living among rural Chinese, and looking at what they needed. Where he was unsuccessful was when he got too caught up in theory, sometimes assuming something would work without paying close enough attention to whether it actually was. I consider the overall political project successful due to the improvements made in people's lives, but how the devil's bargain with the capitalists will ultimately play out remains to be seen.

  • Liberals be like: Yeah I love democracy.

    The thing I love most about democracy is that I get zero choice or control over who represents me in government at all and I let them make decisions for me that hurt me. In fact I celebrate it when they make decisions that hurt me

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