Trump's plan for Ukraine comes into focus: Territorial concessions but NATO off the table
https:// www.reuters.com /world/trumps-plan-ukraine-comes-into-focus-territorial-concessions-nato-off-table-2024-12-04/ Trump's plan for Ukraine comes into focus: Territorial concessions but NATO off the table
Summary
Donald Trump’s advisers are proposing plans to end the Ukraine war that involve territorial concessions to Russia and ruling out NATO membership for Ukraine.
These proposals aim to pressure both sides into negotiations, leveraging military aid as a carrot or stick. Plans include freezing current battle lines or creating demilitarized zones.
Analysts doubt the feasibility, citing likely resistance from Ukraine, European allies, and U.S. lawmakers.
Trump’s approach reflects his campaign pledge to resolve the conflict quickly, but critics argue it risks legitimizing Russian aggression and undermining Western alliances.
President Zelenskyy could have ended the war many months ago if he’d just agreed to all of Putin’s demands. Who knew?
121But then Russia would just be forced to invade some more later because they simply can't help themselves. So Zelensky should do the right thing and hand over all of Ukraine so that Russia doesn't have to go through so much trouble again. All the Baltics and EU should do the same so poor old Putin can finally take a nice vacation.
44
So essentially his plan to "end the war" is to force Ukraine into submitting to all of Russia's demands?
He couldn't be much more overtly in bed with Russia if he tried... Might as well just wait for the photos to leak of him in a rather grotesque threesome with Elon and Putin at this point.
113Wow, what a fucking horrible idea. Not only will this fail to end the conflict quickly but it all but guarantees another one. Let's hope Ukraine's other allies are up to the task if Trump actually tries to follow through with this dogshit plan.
73For Ukraine, only NATO membership makes sense to end the war.
There is literally nothing else that can prevent Russia from invading. They broke their word in 2014, then again in 2022, without NATO membership, Ukraine will just get invaded again and again by Russia until it’s a satellite state or fully annexed.
52I think Europe and Ukraine would be happy with EU membership, or, failing that (because overall complicated and it's gonna take some time) a way to extend Article 42(7) guarantees to Ukraine. Invite the UK etc. while you're at it.
Who should be shit-scared of that possibility is the US because it'd sideline them. Worse: It's bound to come with "buy European" provisions (the French will insist and nobody's going to bother opposing it harshly) and I'm not sure whether the US can afford its military-industrial complex without exports.
So... did Trump already meet with Lockheed-Martin?
2
I.e. "peace" as demanded by Trumps handler Putin.
35If he was fully on the leash then I would have expected surrender of the whole Donbas under threat of pulling aid
5Give it a few months.
13
If he's claiming he'll drop the US out of NATO, why does he think his (concept of a) plan, for the alliance that he hates, has any weight at all? Fucking dipshit.
32Permanently Deleted
27Yeah at this point i think NATO doesn't give a fuck about the US of A anymore. Maybe when somebody that is normal becomes president again. Really fuck Trump, little bootlicking orange.
27Even then. NATO cannot rely on a country that potentially flip flops every 4 years.
13Problem is that the only way NATO gets new members is through unanimous vote. That is how Turkey managed to delay Sweden's entry into NATO over some petty nonsense.
4
Who cares what the orange felon wants? Not his country to make decisions on.
19You say that, but without the US military support it will be rough for Ukraine. The EU has spent a bunch of money to get all other kinds of aid to Ukraine, much more than the US. But the US has supplied more military support, more than the EU. If the US stops helping out, the EU will probably not be able to fill the gap. And Trump can put pressure on the EU by threatening to pull out of Nato again. If Russia decides to invade more countries and the US leaves Nato hanging, the EU is in trouble. Now these are a lot of ifs and since Trump has been elected the EU has been preparing. Plus laws have been passed in the US to prevent Trump from pulling out of Nato, but you know how much Trump cares about laws. Once the EU feels like they don't need the support from the US any more, Trump has nothing to say anymore, but we ain't there yet.
18But the US has supplied more military support, more than the EU.
The US has supplied a lot of aid, and aid that cannot be obtained from elsewhere, but in terms of volume, the EU has gradually passed it by.
Sadly, it seems unlikely that the EU can ramp up weapons industries much faster. Ukrainians themselves have stated that without US assistance, they would run a serious risk of losing the war.
8Yeah, basically the US can decide who gets how much of an advantage in this war by simply dialing up or down their military aid.
Ukraine not willing to negotiate? Dial it down. Russia not willing? Dial it up.
So they can end this war if they are willing to invest accordingly. But not this conflict. Will that lead to a stable peace, or just another war in the near future? Without satisfying answers to these questions, Ukraine is probably better off to keep fighting, even without any US aid, which repeals the first sentence of this paragraph.
1
legitimizing Russian aggression and undermining Western alliances
Yup, sounds like Trump; that russian asset.
So Ukraine needs to get nukes to deter a 3rd invasion in a few years? Just great.
18Fuck Trump
15I’m gonna bet that Zelenskyy’s response is gonna be “nah”
11Trump: if Ukraine refuses my plan, I turn off the tap of $/weapons to you! if Russia refuses my plan I send tons of shitload of weapons to Ukraine!
EDIT: it is written in the article
halting military aid to Kyiv unless it agrees to talk but boosting assistance if Russian President Vladimir Putin refuses.
7I don't get why you are being downvoted. That is exactly what his position is, which would be clear to anyone who actually read the article.
3I don't know too, it is the exact plan of Trump, either stop delivering weapons to Ukraine, or increase delivery
3
Why would Russia ever refuse this, it's victory??
1Because Putin wants more, and he certainly does not want Trump to dictate him something! Trump is the puppet and Putin the puppet master.
2
Title does not match headline in a significant way. Reported.
-8The title literally exactly matches the headline you sanctimonious clown.
4I see how it might be difficult to notice the difference. Perhaps read both the title of the post and headline one more time, this time taking the time to check each word?
The difference is subtle, but it transforms the whole sentiment.
1
No, you see we need to fight Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood. Every Ukrainian man, woman, and child must be sacrificed and the whole of Ukraine sold for scrap then reduced to toxic, landmine-ridden wastes, unfit for human habitation.
-49Giving Ukraine the necessary arms doesn't force them to keep fighting.
It just allows them to decide when they want to stop.23That would be true if Ukraine wasn't drafting its people and giving prison sentences for expressing that Ukraine should cede the territory its lost for peace, while the US demands they draft even younger people.
Currently, most of the people fighting on either side have no choice, nor do the people having their homes destroyed.
-27
You now what would be total bodacious of you? If you could say:
The Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989 happend.
2