Anon starts to believe

This is 100% true

Admen for companies like Monsanto in the 1950s pushed the idea of the “green lawn” and rebranded clover as a weed to push herbicides and nitrogen fertilizers

Clover is resilient with lower water needs, it’s softer, it naturally deters pests, and most importantly it pulls nitrogen from the air and pushes it into the soil.

What’s funny and sad is now they’ve come full circle and today’s admen realized they could capitalize on the instagram trend of undoing the damage of the admen from 70 years ago

Once again advertisers prove that they are absolute scumbags with no ethics whatsoever who will value making a dollar over destroying ecosystems

How am I supposed to use my Turf Builder® every 2 months, 4 times a year?
- You skip the winter. For example, maybe you apply it in March, May, July, and September. (Or April, June, August, and October? IDK I don't actually fertilize my lawn.)
- You spread it every two months, four times. Then stop.
- Oh my god is this that bodybuilding forum post, are you doing the bodybuilding forum post thing
advertisers prove that they are absolute scumbags
I honestly didn't believe that until, one day, a scumbag came calling with a 'brilliant IT idea' that only myself and my colleagues could build. I'll put it this way: we realized that this guy would literally not stop until he covered the entire world with advertising, as though we were supposed to live in an environment modeled after a college dorm corkboard. No thanks.
- Have you not seen how advertising destroys everything it touches and co-opts every space, continually intruding further and further to become more “effective”
  I know you have because you are here on the internet. Depending on your age you have likely seen the decline of sites like reddit, youtube, google, etc. if your older you’ve probably seen newspapers get destroyed in a similar fashion, television, etc. outdoor advertising (billboards, in stores, signage, etc) has only become more obtrusive, offensive, and ever present through the decades as well
  Admen find a space where people are, shove themselves into it, take that space over, then demand control of that space to enforce that their ads are “respected”. With the modern internet they shamelessly steal tons of data about you so their ad spends can be more “effective” because again, they have no ethics whatsoever. They don’t care if that complete violates your privacy and they don’t care if that data continually gets breached when it’s handed through 80 brokers. “Well, I wasn’t the one that did it! Doesn’t matter that I perpetuate a system that’s totally fucked” Except for cases like Google and meta of course where they absolutely were the ones who were. But again, no ethics whatsoever
  Fuck advertisers. Advertisers are the bane of existence. They dont believe in their products, they just believe in soulless consumerism. They fight unfair; if you create systems to evade their bullshit they use their power to destroy those systems (going back to things like tivo). They are the devil, the antichrist. Kill all admen and make the world a better place. If you work in advertising take a long hard look at your life and figure out where it all went wrong, and then go work a more respectable job like being the person who changes urinal ice in strip clubs.
Decided to go with clover this summer. Fuck me it's expensive! And now I learn it used to be filler?! Robbery.

When I got a lawn, I didn't do anything to it. It gets mowed every two weeks, but that's it. After a particularly nasty drought most of the grass died. A few months later, clover started popping up on its own. It's much better than grass, and now a bunny likes to visit us.

!bun_alert_system@lemmy.sdf.org
- She's #4 all time on there! I took this better picture this week but hadn't posted it yet because it's "babie week" there.
We get lots of bunny visitors at my place as well, but I noticed a couple have crazy big ticks around their ears. Luckily we haven't gotten any in the house or anything, but has def made me less "pro-bunny" lately.
- That shouldn't make you less pro-bunny. It should make you more pro-possum. It's an ecosystem. We threw it out of wack, but there are things that help keep tick populations down.
- The rabbit in my yard had a pretty big tick on it. I just don't walk where the tall plants are.

I grew up on an American farm and I cannot comprehend the suburbs. Grass just grows, it was there before developers bull dozed whatever forest / farm / wetland was already there to install impossible to walk cul-de-sacs everywhere. Less massive yards and more public parks would be better for everyone.

As someone who lives in the San Bernardino foothills I can assure you grass doesn't just grow it dries out and gets replaced by an invasive species of central Asian plant. The housing tracts must be baptized in hundreds of invasive tumbleweeds followed by an inferno caused by a Bic lighter.
- What is this central Asia plant because nothing grows under the swing set.
Grew up in the countryside where our yard ended where my dad stopped cutting the grass, one time I messed up his line and we found a horseshoe pit while fixing it, so we got a bigger yard with horseshoes 😂

Clovers are far superior to grass. We had them mixed in pretty thoroughly growing up on our brand new property with the shittiest clay dirt imaginable. The farmland it all replaced was undoubtedly packaged and sold somewhere else.

Just in case people are wondering about this, it's true. Clover is a legume. Meaning it gets nitrogen from the air and puts it into the soil. This effectively means the clover is fertilizing the soil. Seeing lots of clover can be a sign that the soil lacks nitrogen and can't grow much else.

Slight clarification: Dutch Clover (trifolium repens) under nitrogen deficient conditions, at temperatures above 50F and below 95F, and with the correct rhyzobium species present, with soil pH between 5.5 & 8.0, can produce nitrogen that is stored in its tissue.
When clover is mowed and the clippings mulched back into the soil, the decomposition of the leaves adds nitrogen to the soil. If you remove the clippings the nitrogen goes with it.
Clover doesn't just release more nitrogen into the soil, it takes a bit of work.
- When clover is mowed and the clippings mulched back into the soil, the decomposition of the leaves adds nitrogen to the soil. If you remove the clippings the nitrogen goes with it.
  Yes, "green manure" is taking nitrogen fixing crops (like clover and beans and peanuts) and to mulch them while still green, and incorporate that decomposing mulch into the soil you're using. That adds nitrogen in fewer steps than the traditional way of using animal manure (where the nitrogen still ultimately comes from plants).
  Of course, the modern Haber process also fixes nitrogen through industrial chemistry rather than agriculture, so most commercial fertilizer today gets its nitrogen from chemical synthesis of atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia.
- Interesting, I thought the N would be stored in the little nodules on the roots? For other legumes you're supposed to cut them of, not pull them out, so that the roots with their nodules remain and release the N during the rotting process. Is this bullshit?
- 50°F = 10°C
  95°F = 35°C
I plant it in the walkways of my vegetable garden. Besides fixing nitrogen, it makes the Bees happy, and it's tasty in salads and mixed greens.
Oh, and it's super satisfying to walk on in barefeet
- Oh, and it's super satisfying to walk on in barefeet
  Unless you happen upon one of those bees.

Fake: Anon goes outside

Gay: Gardening (? idk this one is a struggle)

Gardening is gay because of roses. Gardens often contain roses, the Japanese word for rose is bara. Barazoku, meaning the rose tribe was Japan's first gay magazine. The magazine was named so because the rose is a prominent symbol of male homosexuality in Japan. This is because of the Greek myth of King Laius who would have affairs with boys under rose trees. You might argue that gardening is not gay if the garden includes no roses but you would be wrong. Roses grow in soil, the word soil is gay. Therefore any form of gardening is inherently gay.
Fellas, is it gay to garden?
- all that bending over? getting dirty fingers? getting heads off plants? sowing seeds? hell yeah
- If anything I think paying close attention to a lawn is classic heterosexual male behaviour
- I was listening to some good EDM while gardening yesterday. Just grooving around and then saw a spot that needed a bit of hand weeding.
  ACCIDENTAL TWERKING

We really need to outlaw advertizing that double as disinformation campaigns.

That's like 99.9% of ads.
- Exactly

Grass isn't inherently a bad idea for a lawn, it's just specific to your individual climate. The main issue is that most of the grasses people plant are native to much cooler climates in Europe.

I have a grass lawn, but it's a native Buffalo grass. It's much more drought tolerant than clover, flowers a couple times a year, doesn't require any maintenance, and provides a natural habitat for native wildlife.

Clover isn't actually much better than most grasses if you are trying to support the natural biodiversity. It's not native to north America, and thus only supports a small range of wildlife that's adapted to it.

A Lot of America's natural ground cover is actually low lying shrubs and flowering plants.

One of the things I remember when I visited Florida as a kid from the UK was how weird their grass was. It's all spiky.
And kept trying to point this out but for some bizarre reason my parents weren't interested.
- It’s called St Augustine grass and it’s everywhere down there since it’s supposedly very hardy, heat resistant, and salt resistant, which is important in hot, wet, and salty Florida. And I know exactly what you mean about the spikiness; it’s not soft at all.
- In my region (Tennessee) the most popular intentional lawn grass is Tall Fescue, which is very soft, but it doesn’t spread laterally, so when gaps happen due to heat and such, spiky/hard crab grass fills in the gaps, and isn’t killed by broad-leaf herbicide since it’s also grass, so semi-maintained lawns quickly get taken over. The lawns with no herbicide regimen get taken over by clover instead, so you end up with a horseshoe of sorts where the completely un-maintained lawns (fescue and clover) and meticulously-maintained lawns (pure fescue) are soft, but the lawns in the middle are spiky.
There are several clover species native to NA.
Most are only found in the west, but theres a few eastern ones like Trifolium kentuckiense.
But sure, the common clover in most peoples yards is likely Trifolium pratense or Trifolium repens
- There are native clovers, but they aren't what you would really classify as ground cover.
I just and to add in here that supporting your non-native bees with clover is still worthwhile. Clovers can be a good add on if you want a traditional lawn
- Clover is non-native in my area. I've witnessed native bumblebees visiting clover, but they show a much stronger preference for larger forbs, both native and non-native. For one, they can't nap on clover (too small, I assume, even when allowed to grow to full size). Additionally, I haven't seen pollinators other than honeybees and bumblebees at the clover, whereas other flowers attract dozens of various species (as well as their predators, creating a fuller ecosystem).
Most people just cut the grass too short. If you can't put foot under the cutting deck, it's too low.
Grass has very little leaves. So they need to be longer to stay green.
Heat wave coming? Cut the grass even longer. Longer grass keeps the moisture in the ground too.
There are some native clovers but otherwise yes
- There are native clovers, but they aren't really what you would utilize for ground cover.

There was this study, I think it was German, of fields for hay (herbivores eat it). They had monocultures and then fields with mixes. While some monocultures did very well some years the mixes did best on average - better defined as producing more biomass. The same probably goes for lawns.

This has been known for quite a while now. I've seen US Ag short films from the 1930s on the benefits of pasture blends and the increased tonnage of feed it produces and how best to manage it to maximize the feed values for greater profits.
Growing up on a small dairy farm we used a mix of alfalfa, red clover, and timothy or maybe fescue. It's been few decades. It was pretty much up to providing decent forage even in dry years or on light ground.
this makes sense from a mathematical perspective, because you're diversifying risks so in a year where one type of plant doesn't grow well, another can take over. so it's more likely that there's a plant in there that can grow well that year.
- Yeah, it didn't blow my mind but I'm glad that people do the science so we can actually quantify these things. They had big improvements up to 4 species and then the gains were less as they increased it.
  Of course this doesn't mean you can drop monoculture in agriculture. You still need your grains to mature at the same time so you can harvest mechanically. Buyers don't want mixes of stuff either. All that jazz. But lawns would probably be much better off with mixed plants.

is everything else on this site also true?

Only when greentexted.

Anon is right, but ONLY ABOUT THIS!!! I've heard Nevada has been using this to conserve water. Im gonna put some on my lawn tomorrow.

Clover is a great drought resistant "carpet" as a replacement for the water greedy grass yards (which are also largely impractical).
- Also great for bee life and other pollinators. The reason they stopped putting it in lawns was because of selective herbicides that kill all plants EXCEPT grass and some marketing fuck-knuckle (string them all up and ban the teaching of marketing) decided that clover had to go so they could sell herbicides that also kill pollinating insects. Happened in the 50s I think.
Would planting clover in an already moist lawn be not a so great idea if you're trying to keep moisture away from your house?

OMG... Are you saying nature has better solutions than chemical companies?

Blasphemy.

As a chemist, you made me laugh. But, there is really nothing natural about a lawn.
Sorry, Monsanto found some of their GMO corn in your field after that comment. Time to give up the farm!
Of course not. You can't monetize nature all that directly, so clearly it's not "better". /s

Just wait till this guy hears about moss...

I don't know what you intended to link to, but this just links to an image search results page with a random assortment of seemingly unrelated results
- Works on .world
- It should be fixed now. I am not sure how I screwed it up. Tried again and it pasted the actual image instead—like it has every time before.
- For OP it's currently an embed of this image: https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a376f402-ef52-4bd7-a3a8-a35cd68a2f1d.gif
  (and yes, as mbin gang I also still just see a duckduckgo search link lol)

Greentext knows its green stuff.

Trust everything on 4chan

Possibly the worst lesson imaginable.

I know that clover is good at fixing atmospheric (gaseous) nitrogen and turning it into a more solid form that plants can use (much like nitrogen fertilizers), but I am not smart enough to know if it is particularly drought-resistant

It lives on far less water than grass in my experience.
- Depends on the species of grass
  Hard Fescue & Sheep fescue have it beat.
  Tall fescue is about equal.
  Blue grass, fine fescues, and perennial ryegrass require more water.

clover idolatry? 4chan iconography. This anon is just preaching to the choir. 🍀 ❗

What clover would you need and where to get

A dwarf Dutch Clover like mini or micro clover is what you are looking for. Some It's a smaller form that blends very well with grass and requires very little maintenance.
Some people use standard forage type ladino or Dutch Clover. I have even seen some people use red clover (trifolium pretense).
You can get it by special ordering it online or a local seller with turf grass dealer/distribution contracts.
It's best to buy the seed innoculated and coated.
It's seeded at around 2-3bs/acre so a little goes a long ways.
- If I could pick your brain for a minute. What kind of clover would you use for the Midwest US and what season is the most optimal to spread them?
- I liberally spread that stuff in all the dead patches in my yard 2 falls ago. The first year almost nothing but the 2nd year and it has really taken over.

There's so many things I want to believe

Clover dies easily. Whether that's people walking on it, temperature extremes, too little water, snow. That makes a lawn look patchy. It can be used in certain places, but definitely not all.

Sure, the issue is people have masssssive fucking yards that they don't walk on. Usually front yards. A mix of clover and grass is best.
- As long as they don't get snow or high temperatures, clover might be okay. Problem is that most of the U.S. gets either snow or high temperatures. There's no way to prevent the die-off with snow, but you'll need to irrigate frequently and copiously to keep clover alive in high temperatures. It's a big waste of clean water, IMHO.
You're describing grass.
- Depending on the type, grass is much hardier.