If you found someone attractive, would you date them if you found out they were trans?

Can we just not do threads like this? It literally just a thread for cis people to confidently declare how much they find trans people yucky and how they are completely justified in finding us repulsive. Nothing good comes from these discussions.

People say they have a genital preference, yet trans people have a range of different genitalia, pre-op, intersex, or post operative. People say they want kids, yet some trans people can still have kids pregnancy, banked eggs or sperm, adoption, surrogacy, etc.

For every "requirement" cis people have for trans people there is a trans person that exists that meets those requirements and then cis people move the goalposts to justify their bigotry.

Cis people don't respond.

yep you are exactly right, though I don't know how you expect cis people to know this without interacting with trans people who are able to complicate their view ...
it sounds like you justified the thread for me - the good that comes from a thread like this is the possibility of cis people learning more about the diversity of human biology. I don't expect anyone to change their views overnight, but refusing to talk to cis people about their views just because they are problematic doesn't seem right to me 🤔
still, you're not entirely wrong that the discussions can just become a way for transphobia to be aired publicly, so I understand why other trans folks might not want to be exposed to this
- Nah fuck that, cis people don't get debated in this way publicly at all. Cis people can go learn elsewhere in a more moderated setting, meanwhile this thread is full of bigotry that the rest of us are subjected to.

People are misinterpreting what straight means in this thread. You can date a trans person and be straight. Have a genital preference is different than your sexual orientation. It's perfectly fine if you wouldn't date a trans person because they don't match your genital preference, sex related things can be a deal breaker. But you're not gay for dating a trans person of the opposite sex.

+1, dating a trans woman as a man doesn't make you gay

I think sometimes the "genital preference" has often become an acceptable form of "transphobia" (I don't mean that word in the "I'm going to murder a trans person" kind of way, but more like a "bias and stigma against trans people" kind of way).
I think this is a fundamental confusion about female penises, tbh - the assumption is that they are much like male penises, which is a reasonable assumption given how little exposure people have to the female penis. Even in trans porn you generally see trans women's penises being used like men's penises - how are we supposed to show this is unrealistic and not characteristic of most trans women?
On the other hand, I do believe genital preference really should be respected regardless of whether it gets mixed up with transphobia, and someone who understands and sees a woman's penis as a female might still prefer to have penetration with a vagina, for example. Anal sex can be involved and be painful, etc. so I completely understand if that doesn't end up suitably replacing vaginal sex (and to be honest, I feel this way myself as a trans woman - I was deeply unsatisfied with having a female penis, and I feel if I have a right to my bottom dysphoria and sexual preferences, who am I to deny some legitimate preferences of sexual partners who also want a particular kind of penetration?)
That said, I do think often ignorance and transphobia hide behind "genital preference" and this muddies the waters. My reaction to this is a bit of indifference - I'm not interested in coercing anyone into having sex with trans people, I just want to have an opportunity to expose more people to the truth and invite people to think more deeply about their beliefs. I don't need to change them, even, it's just nice to have some dialogue.
It's perfectly fine if you wouldn't date a trans person because they don't match your genital preference, sex related things can be a deal breaker. But you're not gay for dating a trans person of the opposite sex.
Ok, then the equal is true — I'm not transphobic for deciding I don't want to date a trans person. Regardless of sexual part compatibility.

Probably not, because ultimately, I want to play with genitals that are different from mine.

I don't expect everyone to agree, and it's perfectly okay for someone to have an alternative preference, and they are welcome to indulge it, but that's just mine.

Why are you assuming their genitals would be the same as yours?
- probably because only a minority are post-op
  fuzzy unreliable memory of potentially unreliable numbers, but I had read over half of trans women want a vagina, but only around 12% actually have one - those numbers are probably wrong, but the overall point stands that by the numbers most trans women are likely to have a female penis.
  The assumption that having a penis is essential to being a trans woman is clearly wrong, though. Most of us want a vagina, and it would be nice if access to healthcare was a priority
  currently the goal seems to be to make it as hard as possible for trans people to live as their gender, which is weirdly anti-assimilationist, you would think giving a trans woman a vagina would be entirely compatible with the conservative anxieties about trans people - the better access and care we receive, the fewer visibly trans people exist ... it is by denying us the means of assimilation to cis norms that we become social "problems", which benefits no one.
- I said Probably. If we can interlock, I'm good to go!

You can find people attractive without wanting to date them.

true, it's hard to fit all the context I wanted to add within a title ...
my question is really meant to ask how people would react to learning someone they are attracted to and would otherwise date is trans
If I just asked "would you date a trans person" I would expect the reader to think of an ugly trans person because that's the stereotype, and then the answer is usually no, but that doesn't get at what I'm wondering about.
- Go with, if you were romantically attracted to a person. That helps differentiate between lust and love.
Wasn't the question...
- And yet that is the answer I most relate with.

Yes. Because i find them attractive.

Yeah we already established in the premise I find them attractive. Of course I would.
this is the right answer, here is your prize: 🎂
- There's no "right" answer to this question.
- THE CAKE WAS NOT A LIE!!!

The only issue I might have is that some of the bigotry might start coming after me for associating. I’d like to think I’m the sort of person that would stand strong against that shit but I recognize that’s easier said than done from a position as relatively comfortable as the one I’m in.

Who am I kidding, though? I’d never think through the question as long as I did being asked it as a hypothetical. I’d date her and then maybe regret it later for the tangential reason.

you are the first person to mention this! I'm shocked all the focus is on gentials when I would think the stigma and being a political scapegoat would be bigger concerns!
Follow-up question: what if she were cis passing and you didn't experience stigma being in public together?

Yes and why not?

Yeah but I’m bi and just am into people that make me thirsty, doesn’t matter to me

Unfathomably based

I would say I am hetero.
If they reflect the sex they are claiming to be? Sure. I am not planning on making kids. So no way of getting pregnant either.
Rather would adopt anyway.

Edit: This assumes I like their personality in the first place.
And it would maybe only in tge first couple weeks be novel and unusual/weird to me. Then it's just business as usual.

This makes sense - by "reflect the sex they are claiming to be" do you just mean they are suitably feminine and appear to be a woman?
This is a fairly reasonable take, or at least I completely understand why someone who is a straight man would not want to date someone who appears male, for example.
I guess one question I have is whether a female penis would be a problem for you as a straight man? Separately is having a vagina an important requirement for you to date a trans woman (you might be happy with a female penis, but still want penetration with a vagina, which is why I see these as two separate questions).

That depends - am I only physically attracted to them? The answer is no, whether or not they’re trans. Am I also attracted to their personality? Then yes, whether or not they’re trans.

It helps that I’m bi.

Let's say the attraction is whatever that means for you - I usually have emotional and romantic interest in someone as the main driver of pursuing a relationship, and physical attraction is an important but secondary aspect - so when I say attracted I do mean that openly in whatever way you would normally feel attracted to someone.
Is your distinction relevant because you are asexual (or demisexual) but allo- or pan- romantic?
Being bisexual does help - I am bi as well, so it can be hard sometimes to imagine being straight - but I do think I understand the phenomenology of straightness well enough (it's not hard for me to connect with what it's like to not be attracted to something, and with changes in hormones I even experienced dramatic shifts in my attraction based on gendered traits).

I would not. I'm all for treating people as they want to be treated, but as far as my own attraction goes, I don't think I'd be able to completely think of them as being of the opposite sex.

this assumes you are able to tell, do you think you can always tell?
or is the point that once you know they are trans, the knowledge prevents you from seeing them as their gender?
- If I couldn't tell, and they didn't tell me, then i guess I'd just be happy in my ignorance. I can't say that I can always tell, because... well I wouldn't necessarily know about the times I couldn't tell. But yes, if I knew then it would break the attraction for me.
- I know a couple of people who transitioned and if I didn't know I couldn't tell.
  I think I would be open to date if I found out organically that they are trans.
  \ If instead it is the topic of conversation every other day, I'd pass.
Same for me. I am all for trans rights and I would 100% support their choice, but I don't think dating would work for me.

I've never been in that situation but I wouldn't rule it out on principle.

that seems reasonable
I'm sure most of us would have internal barriers in place that would make it challenging to date someone who is different that way - no different in some ways than struggling to date someone in a wheelchair or who lives with a major disability.
But I think it makes sense to not pre-emptively judge a situation, to be open to possibility.
Are there boundaries or limitations you think would make it challenging for you to date a trans person?

No because I'm married and my wife wouldn't like that.

More seriously, It's not a hard no, but I lean towards probably not, it would probably depend the specifics of their identity and the state of any medical transition.

In general, I'd tend to call myself a straight cis man. If I think long and hard about it, I could make an argument that I'm perhaps something along the lines of a non-binary person with a penis, who just happens to present in a traditionally "masculine" fashion in basically every way, and who is attracted to people with vaginas who present in at least a somewhat feminine way.

That's a fucking mouthful though, and I'm just not gonna get into the weeds about that in casual conversation.

The fact that I'm a man isn't really something that's particularly important to me, I just kind of think of myself as a person. If somehow someone misgendered me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest (though it may get a chuckle because I'm a bald, hairy dude with a big busty beard and fairly deep voice, not exactly the picture of femininity)

And while I quite enjoy having a penis, I don't feel as though I'd be particularly bothered by having a vagina instead (although you can miss me with that period nonsense, but I think most vagina-havers would agree on that point) and I'd otherwise live my life the same way.

And how "feminine" a theoretical partner would need to be actually gets a lot of leeway. I can find people pretty far into the tomboy/androgynous/butch/etc end of the spectrum attractive, maybe even preferably to the extreme "girly" end of the spectrum. There's a line there where they'd be too "masculine" for my tastes, but it's a fuzzy one.

And for me, a certain amount of physical attraction in a partner is important. It's a pretty wide spectrum that I'm able to find attractive, but there are limits, and I have preferences and dislikes to varying degrees.

And one of those strongest preferences is that my partner have a vagina. I am just not attracted to people with a penis.

If we want to count it under the trans umbrella, I don't think that me dating a non-binary person with a vagina would be out of the question.

Maybe even a FTM femboy type who hasn't had or want bottom surgery.

MTF, which I think is more in the spirit of this question, is a bit murkier though. If they don't intend to get bottom surgery I think that's a pretty hard no. And even if they have or intend to I can't say that I've ever seen, let alone touched, a surgically-created vagina, so I don't know if they'd do it for me the same way as a natural one.

The best comparison I do have is that I generally consider myself to be a boob-guy, and while it's not an outright disqualifier, fake boobs don't usually do it for me in quite the same way as real ones, but some are better than others, and while I tend to like big boobs, I have nothing against small ones, and a mastectomy isn't a deal-breaker for me either.

So I suspect that with bottom surgery, it's a firm "maybe"

As for a trans partner who has not yet but intends to get that surgery, I guess it kind of depends on the timeline. I don't really want to have sex with someone with a penis and a sexless relationship for me would have a limited lifespan.

All of that said, regardless of whether I'd date them or not doesn't change how I'd view their identity. There's plenty of women out there I wouldn't date for any number of reasons, but that doesn't mean I see them as any less of a woman.

Yeah I feel this. Not in any of the specifics, pretty much all of those I'm completely opposite to you in, but just in the overall sense of "yeah this shit's complicated, I mostly like having sex with (in my case penises).

Having been in this position, sure, but I've also had to end relationships because the person transitioned in a direction I wasn't attracted to. Communicating honestly and openly is the key, as it is for pretty much everything about interpersonal relationships.

That reminds me of a friend back in WoW who said she once broke off a relationship after coming home from a holiday and finding out her boyfriend had become her girlfriend.

If I wasn't already in a committed relationship, yes. I'm pan.

I you have like gender blindness like people have bird blindness?
- No? I recognize gender, I'm just attracted to em all.
how do you define pan?
- Generally I'm attracted to all gender expressions and sexual characteristics, just to varying degrees. Whether or not someone is trans makes no difference to me if I'm attracted to them.

I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I had a problem with that

ha, fair enough - though it's precisely because I'm trans that I would be hesitant to date a trans person, but honestly it would depend on the person and where they are in transition, among other things. I guess in my mind if I loved them, that would transcend that they are trans (just like if they were in an accident and became paraplegic, my love and loyalty to my partner would mean I would still love them and stay with them even with that disability).
- Fair enough. I might be a little hesitant to date someone really early in their transition, just because I would need to seriously consider whether I was able to take on the somewhat implied responsibility that comes with that to guide them through such a scary and vulnerable period.
  Beyond that I'm functionally t4t, it's just really nice to date someone who gets you, and all the baggage that entails, and with whom you already have such a strong shared connection.

Me finding them attractive is already a good indication they're trans, so...

haha, there is a solid number of Lemmy users here that are like this 😄
what do you think you find attractive about trans people - and do you think cis-passing trans people are less attractive to you?

Personally yes. Because I can find attractive all types of primary and secondary sexual features. So there's no problem if there are some mixed features.

But I would understand if someone who doesn't find penises/vaginas attractive wouldn't want to date other someone who has a penis/vagina.

If I found someone attractive, yes of course. I don’t care if you’re straight, gay, bi, trans, whatever - I’m not attracted to sex or the bits between your legs, I’m attracted to person and personality. As long as you’re confident and comfortable being you, I’ll swing anyway you want.

But due to the world we live in, lot of the time the struggle of being them so very much in their identity that they can’t talk about much else and I don’t find that very attractive, in fact quite the opposite.

I would say only a minority of us are like that, and usually it's more intense early in transition.
tbh a lot (if not most) trans people just adapt to living as their gender and are fairly "normal" at that point.
When they can, most seem to leave the community, stop identifying as trans, and just integrate fully into cis society. This is part of why it's hard to find trans elders online, "trans community" both in person and online seems to be mostly for people who are visibly non-conforming or who are early in transition.
So the visibly trans people are usually early transitioners, people who struggle with passing (whether intentional or not), and the loud, proud activist types. This can skew the perception of what trans people are like generally.
- Yes, I think you're correct. The noise/signal ratio tends to be bad in online communities and especially in social media (as with any other topic). I've met some lovely (and attractive!) trans people in work life. Never dated one though, as I've been "off the market" for years now, but I don't find the idea any stranger than dating anyone else. If there's a mutual connection, then that's all I need. The rest will sort itself out and this, as you rightfully point out, has become stronger and clearer the older I've become.

If I were single and they were secure, then sure. I really feel for a lot of trans people because I know the transition can cause a lot of insecurity. And that's absolutely valid and I don't want to be unfeeling about it, but at the same time I know myself and I don't want a partner who is insecure and potentially overly emotionally needy, because I'm not good at providing that kind of support. So I'd be fine dating a trans person who is confident and secure, no matter where in the transition the person is.

I say 'they' because I'm fine dating either men or women, not because I want to invalidate anyone's gender :)

No, because I'm already happily married.

If I weren't, well, the "equipment" is part of what I'm attracted to. So whether I would want to continue something long term depends on what they're working with.

Trans women are women, and women are gorgeous. So heck yes for transfemmes.

Cute enbies are cute enbies, you can bet I'm down <3

If a person I was dating transitioned to being a man, I would probably have to end it unless they were a femboy? (Currently seeing a transmasc femboy - he's cute as hell <3)

Reason? I'm not attracted to a person's genitals or the gender they were assigned at birth, I'm attracted to the person! If they have a penis/neopenis or vagina/neovagina or both or neither - who gives a damn. If a doctor declared they were "male" 20 years ago who gives the slightest fuck.

well, i'm trans, and my partner's trans, and so are the majority of my exes, so, i'm gonna go with yes.

haha, is that a coincidence or do you have a preference for dating trans people? I do think when I was in denial I was more attracted to trans people as a result. When I transitioned that changed, it was probably repression that led to some kind of sexual sublimation that was responsible for the kind of "trans fetish" I was experiencing.

Side note: The atmosphere on Lemmy is very pro-queer. Mastodon seems to be pretty queer too, but the number of users is a lot bigger, so you might see more diversity in answers. If you asked the same question on Reddit or X, you would absolutely find lots of unsavory comments.

"unsavory" lol
- Yeah, that’s just a shorter way to say: “open hostility, verbal assault, hate speech, various kinds of unethical or even criminal activity, and general online nastiness”.
thanks for the note 😊

Being already married and stuff aside, as a straight cisgender male I would honestly have a hard time with it. Like, my parents' neighbor is a trans woman and I'd be lying if I denied noticing her (covered) boobs when she was hanging out in the back yard. But if I'm going to have a romantic relationship with someone, there are physical traits that attract me and others that don't... And I would need to be attracted to my partner, both with what's typically visible in public and what isn't.

It's nothing personal, and I truly hope their new body (whatever that may be) works for them and they find the love they want. It's just not what I'm after.

To use the cliche as a tl;dr, it's not you, it's me.

Would you feel differently about a post-op trans woman? I assume the hang-up is the penis on a woman?
Do you think a penis would be a deal-breaker even if it were feminine: soft, flaccid, more like an oversized clit than a penis? Would it change anything to know lots of trans women's penises don't ejaculate, but instead produce wetness like a cis woman would when aroused?
I don't doubt the gential preference, I just sometimes think straight men think of the female penis as being like a man's penis, and that's not usually the case.
- To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. In theory, sure: the initial question assumed initial (presumably clothed) attraction. You've got the body parts I enjoy between the sheets. Let's give it a try!
  But also, I'm a dumb human with dumb human hangups that shouldn't matter, but do. Maybe this person is everything I wanted and I could never turn that down; maybe there's a mental block I just can't get around despite my best efforts

I somehow added an i there and was a little too excited to comment 'Yes, who doesn't love trains!?!?'

I love this, lol
autism has entered the chat 🚂

Sadly no. I want kids of my own someday.

As a tangent, what happened to adopting?
- not interested.
that is a struggle, and with a trans woman it is possible they have frozen sperm and fertility treatments are possible, but having both your sperm and your wife's sperm gets problematic, I don't know if they have a method of accomplishing this.
And you would still need someone to have the baby for you. It's tragic, tbh - I would love to see a succcessful uterus transplant in my lifetime 😭

Personally yes, absolutely. I guess benefits of being Bi/Pan?

But I can see how some wouldn't. Preference and compatibility matters in a relationship.

No, because I'm taken but it wouldn't change the fact that I find them attractive. I'd date someone no matter their gender or genitals though, if thats what your asking

that's not exactly what I'm asking - but it's informative that gentials come up (makes sense in the context of dating)
I tend to think of being trans as more than just gential situation in terms of dating - if the person is not passing for example, you might get stared at as a couple in public, the stigma that is directed at them might also impact you. Their life experiences- the harassment, the unemployment, etc. might impact you. For me, these even might be more important factors than their genitals.
(I tend to be able to see a female penis as female, it's usually soft and flaccid, like an oversized clit - it's not as "male" as people tend to think, which can be a disappointment for a certain subset of people who want the female penis to perform and fill the role a male penis usually does.)
- I only mentioned genitals because it seems to matter to most people. I really don't care tbh, I could date someone with zero sex involved if I wanted. As for social stigma, that shit can suck but it wouldn't stop me from dating them.
- Uh so if I showed you a picture of a penis you claim to be able to know if it's owners gender? Doesn't that kind of go against your beliefs?
  But yes it's genitals for me

If I was to go on a date and found them attractive, I would not disqualify them for being trans.

Im a 50 year old wht sis male (I hope that's right). Tbh, not sure that this would have been my answer 25 years ago.

If they found me attractive as well then hell yeah I'm in!

Love is love.

inaccurate username
- I'm a dumbass, not a fucking idiot lol.

If there's an expectation of sex we'd have to figure out if we're compatible in that way.

This is such a mature response, it remains open to possibility while being realistic about the existence of certain boundaries or needs.
To be honest figuring out if you are sexually compatabile is an important aspect of any relationship, and trans people even more than others might need accommodation and have a need to figure out compatibility.
How do you think you would you figure out compatibility?

Been there, done that. It was great, but didn't last for other reasons. I'm now cis married with kids and don't regret a thing.

I’m a cis straight guy and I find trans women and trans men attractive… maybe I’m not so straight…

depends on how you're looking at them, tbh
it makes sense as a straight guy to be attracted to trans women, I don't consider it gay to be attracted to women (though I understand the confusion about this, I assume you're not into trans women who haven't transitioned, presumably you are attracted to women who are feminine and look like women...)
but to be attracted to a trans man definitely raises questions about how you see them. Are you attracted to a trans man like Buck Angel for example, or is it mostly early transition trans men who are androgynous and still might be mistaken for women?

Likely not. I'm a cis straight man who tends to be into women who aren't into men, so while particularly feminine women aren’t my thing, the parts matter to me in terms of dating/having sex. Fully post-op and passing would certainly consider, but I know that's not always the goal for trans folks.

That's such a weird order of operations. Like, your medical conditions are simultaneously such a big part of your life, and yet also so deeply personal that it feels like they should not be part of the initial conversation, which is supposed to be shallow and light, not immediately heavy duty.

I think perhaps there are other more important considerations than mere trans-ness, like "do they have the same overall life goals that I have" and "are they taking care of their mind and body and fitness". But transness may inform those aspects. If a significant focus of their life is on their own gender, I might struggle with that. If they're already at a point where they have dealt with it and moved on to other things, then it might work. If they have comorbid issues beyond transness, like depression and anxiety, that can be a deal breaker unless they are managing themselves and putting in the work.

Yes. Penis or vagina matters little to me.

interesting but not surprising to see the focus on gentials - after all the biggest problem (and for some, the biggest perk) has to do with the genital mismatch
It's hard because not all trans people fit a single "type" - some of us get support as children and avoid going through the wrong puberty and live pretty much as cis people (though that doesn't guarantee access to SRS).
I can't remember exactly so take this with a grain of salt, but over half of trans people want SRS but only around 12% actually have had SRS. So statistically it's probably true a given trans person is pre-op.
Anyway, for me dating a trans person comes with a lot more than just gential configuration, it involves their daily experiences of dysphoria, discrimination, the sensitivities about how they want to be touched or not touched, how their voice sounds, their mix of socialized gendered traits, etc.
- Absolutely, there’s a lot more to it than just the genitals, but to be fair, everyone has a large number of differences from the mean- I’ve met bio women with very deep voices, with unflattering figures, who’ve experienced misogyny, etc.
  Apart from the genitals, everything a trans person had that might differentiate them from a cis person can still be present in a cis person.
"You gotta love the person, not what they're packin'."

Yeah. Half the people I’ve dated are trans.

Sure.

I find like 99% of people unattractive, though, cis and trans alike.

If I found out someone was cis whom I'd otherwise consider dating, it would probably be difficult to maintain interest.

ah, interesting - what makes cis people less interesting to you?
- To answer it seriously, for me, it's not specifically cis, but more broadly, queer. I need someone who has faced the assumptions that society forces on them and knows how to exist in the world anyway, having faced those assumptions, questioned them and found their own relationship with themselves.
  tl;dr I need people who have had to question who they are and find themselves, rather than someone who has never had to answer those questions.
- I mostly meant it as a joke. I don't date or have sex, so its not something I'd seriously consider.
  But I also suspect I'd have a hard time jiving with someone who strongly identifies with their AGAB. Personally, I sorta feel like gender is BS and cis people caring about it is weird. If they only tepidly identify with it, that's fine. In a non-transphobic world, I'd hold trans people to the same standard, but since transphobia is prevalent, trans pride ought to exist as a counter force and trans people at least inherently challenge some of the worst aspects of gender as conceptualized by transphobes.

Yes.

As long as they have the matching equipment then I'm totally fine with it.

I've always wanted to try out dating an mtf girl

Ew. We're not something for you to "try out".
- The entire concept of dating is trying someone out

If I'm having sex with someone, and I'm very allo so that's my assumption going into dating, genital configuration is important to me. I like cock on masc-presenting folks, so chances are cis men are exclusively where I'll be wanting to date. If I were a little more bi/pan/ace, my answer would likely be different.

I guess the question that pops into my mind is how about a very masculine trans man who is either post-op, or uses a strap-on, would that be an option?
(My go-to example of a masculine trans man has been Buck Angel, but I really need a new example since that guy has always been an asshole and is currently becoming an anti-trans activist. It's hard when he was a trans icon back in the day, now he's an anti-trans icon 🫠)
- Strap-ons don't really do it for me. As far as post-op, I am not really up to speed on how advanced these are, and how well they replicate a "homegrown" set. Full disclosure, I'm Aroallo, so my physical tastes take a much higher priority than emotional attachment and commitment. I would be a way better platonic friend than a "girlfriend."
  Provided that the operations are perfectly done, my only hangup might be some remnants of my heteromisogynist upbringing. Do I want to feel like an alluring feminine mystery to someone who was never socialized with the "girlhood" experience, rather than "been there, hated it?" Maybe, and ironically I think that's more shallow of me than the genital compatibility.
  That's a pity about Buck Angel. Haven't heard of him before. Idk if it's a self loathing mental health lashing out against your group thing (which I emphasize with, despite the clear harm) or a "pulling the ladder behind you" a la Blair White thing.

I personally wouldn't, but I certainly wouldn't disparage others who would.

if you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be interested to hear more
- To put it simply, I enjoy having sex with genuine female genitalia. I enjoy getting to explore it, play with it, and please it.
  No matter how good a surgeon is, it's just not going to be the same as the real deal.

No.

It really doesn't have much to do with their biology tbh, it's because nobody I've ever met who is trans ever shuts the fuck up about being trans.

Be a man or a woman, gay, fucking whatever. I really don't care. Like at all. But I find vanity and self absorption huge turnoffs.

If you want to make your entire identity a single thing I again have no issue with it but I also wont want to be around you.

I dont have a problem with you. I just dont want to stand around beating a dead horse over and over and over again.

Also a penis is a straight up non starter. Everything to do with dudes gives me the ick.

makes sense, I don't particularly like to identify as trans (I don't IRL at all, actually, I'm back in the closet on that one), and I don't love when people are super into making their identity about their gender identity or sexuality (let alone vain and self-absorbed)
that said, I do think a vocal minority are like this, and it makes sense that is what you've been exposed to, I just wonder what your experiences have been like. For example, are you finding this loud trans identity thing happening with trans men you know (or do you know any trans men)?
also heard on the penis thing, it's a common reason people give, though I do wonder sometimes if that issue is a bit exaggerated relative to the realities of a female penis ...

As long as it's post op, sure. Only reasonable issue I can think of is no kids, but I don't want kids anyway so there is basically just no issues.

No, because I'm (a) in a relationship and (b) not into trans people.

I mean, a lot of trans people are not that different than cis people - in the scenario I've imagined, this is a person you are attracted to already, and maybe finding out they are trans would be a surprise then?
What if it were someone who was post-op, had transitioned as a child, and for them being trans is a medical fact from their distant past? They live fully as a cis person, you and most people wouldn't know they were trans unless they told you. Would you not date them if you found out?

No, I wouldn’t date a trans person because I’m straight

hm? Can you help me out here - I assume you're a straight man? Would you date a trans woman who is indistinguishable from a cis woman?
- It's the inate disgust. Even if she had xx chrome I'd still be grossed out at the thought of fucking a man.
- No i wouldnt
- I think you are being ignorant. Don’t forget my life and my decisions, dumbass

I'm bi, and also trans, so no problem, lol

Yes. I found them attractive and enjoyed their personality. I don't care about the genitals they have.

No. Starting any relationship with a lie or withholding the truth is not kosher to me. Now, knowing form the start, an attractive lady is an attractive lady. Let's have that discussion. But I am also biologicaly a male and I quite enjoy the female form and all associated enjoyment with such. I do not find androgynous or males attractive at all, just not wired that way.

I guess in my mind the thought experiment was that you see the person is attractive to you (in this case they are feminine and beautiful enough that you would find them attractive), but you haven't started dating yet, it comes out before dating and then you have to decide whether to date them or not.
It's interesting to explore various permutations:
what if she were pre-op, would her female penis be a deal-breaker?
what if she were post-op, would there be any hangups at that point?
what if she were post-op, transitioned as a child, and her trans status was an irrelevant medical fact from her distant past, would you still feel it was a lie and be upset to learn after you had been dating?
It's interesting to me you bring up androgyny and males when thinking about trans women - I guess that makes sense, probably most people think of a man who lives as a woman socially... I guess it's hard when the passing trans women are invisible, living as cis people without disclosing their trans identity. That leaves the non-passing folks as the most visible ones.
Anyway, let me assure you, there are plenty of trans women who look and are feminine, and indistinguishable from cis women. But I totally get why this is hard to believe without first hand exposure.
- Appreciate the in depth reply. I don't have experience being a trans person or dating one or even hitting it off enough to get to that point. So my words are purely from a heterosexual male perspective without evidence to support it.
  For your bullet points and me specifically.
  possibly. Sexual intimacy is an important component of a relationship, to me. I cannot have sexual enjoyment or attraction with another penis.
  I don't feel there would be any hangups, just would want to make sure my lady is happy and medically safe, though that means more work as a partner
  don't see an issue with this either, as long as it was disclose it. same as above for potential concerns. Finding out after a wedding or a few years dating would definitely cause me some issues.
  If I hit it off with a woman and before we got to the stage of dating offically, and we had that conversation, no it would not be a deal breaker for me. Communication is important though