Most of us hate Microsoft, and yet many of us use VSCode

Because the hate is based on their shitty OS. They did a fairly good job with VSCode. Our hate isn't blind.

I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.

Yet most project uses GitHub too you know...

I only use vim.

i have been trapped for 2 years now... hope seems pointless

VSCode is the only Electron program I know of that does not feel like using McDonald's kiosk on virtual machine over remote desktop.

At least use VSCodium which is VSCode without telemetry/tracking ...

My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.

It's undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that's a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I'm not aware of. Apple... I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?

VSCode isn't even that good, idk why people are obsessed with it.

For anything compiled, Jetbrains beats it 100:1, and for anything interpreted it's a couple tiers better than Kate.

Personally, I won't be losing sleep if I have to stop using VSCode.

Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You're not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It's disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it's for VS Code plugins, don't be tricked, it's just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.

Those that truly dislike MS and telemetry won't.

If I'm using non-free it is Jet Brains.

I tend to use Kate, KDevelop.

MS still slurping code into Copilot from Github and telemetry in VSCode.

VSCode is an open source IDE. Its biggest rival is the JetBrains suite. When the alternatives are proprietary, VSCode is a win.

Its not only Microsoft crap, its also an Electron app!

Neovim user here. Granted it takes some time to setup properly but it’s really fast with navigating through files, lsp functions and doing a search in thousands of files.

I found vscode too slow and bloated for my taste.

I use Kate.

Don't use vscode, use vsCodium, all the goodness of vscpde with none of the sleezy ms tracking

"Most of us hate microsoft" is honestly a pretty bold claim. They're just a company that makes software. The vast majority of the world's Linux users--which is to say, professionals who build or manage software that runs in Linux--don't care about them one way or another.

This sub might have an ideological skew, but you still don't know what people in here think about Microsoft.

You csn hate a company and like a product. They aren't mutually exclusive.

This reminds me of when my dad holds an ideological belief about something based on politicians he doesn't like who support it.

"Climate change isn't real because Al Gore..."

"Supply Side Jesus isn't valid because Al Franken..."

"Affirmative Action is racist because Al Sharpton..."

Actually now that I think about it, maybe he just doesn't like people named Al...🤔

But anyway, if it's open source, and the source is sufficiently audited by third parties, and I'm able to compile and run it myself, and running it doesn't have undesired behavior (telemetry etc) then I don't care who wrote it, because it does exactly what I need it to.

Choosing not to use good software from the same company just because another software they offer is subpar would be an unreasonable decision.

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It's a tool. You use the best tool available. Getting your day job done is your bottom line, you can't afford to be any less productive. If you're a foss coder doing it on your own time, go crazy. Using the most efficient tool isn't the same thing as supporting a company's bad practices, the real world isn't black and white.

Well it's really noob friendly. The introductory courses in programming all tell you to use it and it takes some time and experience to find alternative editors that 1. you like better, and 2. won't confuse you more than the course itself does.

I used to use VSCodium and the Vim extension. Then I downloaded Neovim and started configuring it, but I was never really satisfied with the config. Then I found Doom Emacs. It was pretty much the thing I tried turning Neovim into.

But I wouldn't recommend Doom Emacs to a first-year student that is still learning the fundamentals.

Edit: typos

Emacs will be there for you, once vscode gets abandoned.

I don't

If you like vscode you can always use vscodium

I don't use VSCode for the exact reason. I used VSCodium but switched to Neovim. I see this problem more with GitHub (also owned by Microsoft). I was not able to get off GitHub yet, but I'm planning to switch to Codeberg probably. I heard that GitLab is also closed source?

ITT people having their minds blown by the fact the creator and the creation are two different things.

My hate for Microsoft is based on the Embrace-Extend-Extinguish business tactics they use since the 80's instead of competing on product quality.

Take a look at the recent computing history and you'll find plenty of examples of great software killed by MS shitty alternatives that were the default because of the stranglehold on the OS market.

It’s hard to separate yourself from it when the company you work for uses it heavily and leans on some of the extensions for things like containers.

I used to be a hardcore Sublime Text user until it started formatting all of my code like garbage. I had plugins conflicting with each other and couldn’t find alternatives that did what I needed without clashes happening. Plus, barely anything is alive over on the Sublime side.

It’s hard to say no to an editor with that big of a community. You can find 100 plugins for your one need, vs 2 on the Sublime side (and you end up finding that those 2 plugins haven’t been updated in years).

You can always fallback to VSCodium.

Which goes to show that we don't blindly hate Microsoft, and that it's not that we refuse to use Windows because it's made by them, but because it's shit.

I just want Atom back, or anything that works like it. I want a text editor with a folder tree browser. Syntax highlighting is nice. And decent full project text search.

I use vim for writing code, and atom for taking notes, or just reading code. Then they shut down atom and it sucks.

I hate that I need to dedicate so much time to finding new tools in tech. It’s nice that vim doesn’t change.

I use NeoVim, but I don't hate Microsoft (they contribute a lot to Linux kernel). What is wrong with me?

Free software doesn't have owners, that is kinda the point.

You use whatever works best for you. Microsoft Lens, on Android, is still unmatched for scanning, correcting perspective, and cleaning up whiteboards. No OSS tool comes close - and, believe me, I tried to use others (or, other; I think OpenScan is the only thing that attempts something similar). It would be foolish to not use a tool that you like using and doesn't have any hidden consequences, merely because of on opinion.

I don't think VSCode is particularly good, myself, but the point remains: it's free, I haven't heard anything about it surreptitiously sending info to MS, and if it works for people, then great.

I use vscodium and ms office 2016, fight me

If Windows was open source it wouldn’t be as bad

most of us hate the government and yet we use the roads

I rather use notepad++ masterpiece

I'll be interested to see how JetBrains's Fleet works out. I like Rider a lot more than full Visual Studio (also Rider is actually available on Linux).

I was using Atom, but that died. I work with both Python and Fortran, and VSCode works for my usecase, but I'm open to suggestions.

I wouldn't say I "hate" Microsoft (or Apple, or Google), but I recognize the harm they do to the free software movement and to the technology world in general. I wouldn't avoid a good quality free software just because it's made by a GAFAM company (as long as I stick with the free parts and avoid proprietary extensions), just like I wouldn't use proprietary software just because it's not made by GAFAM.

The point isn't to hate GAFAM but to seek freedom and control over your computing.

I feel like microsoft's gameplan is less "everyone must use windows" these days and more "we want to gatekeep tech on as many levels as possible". I'm wary of relying on anything they put out. I think we've all recently seen what big tech companies do when they decide its time to monetize more aggressively.

Right now helix is pretty good for what I do with it.

I was using Sublime Text for many years. Even after Atom came out I still used ST3. However, ST development is understandably slow compared to VSCode and it is now so far behind that loyalty isn't enough of a reason to continue using it.

Make something better and I'll switch to it

Agreed, I share the same frustration (including for Chromium) as if developers were somehow blissfully ignorant of the political and economical power they give away to company that use and abuse their work, truly self flagellating.

@flashgnash

VSCodium: https://vscodium.com/

I use vscodium btw.

Developing in C# in Corporate, so C# debugger only works on VS Code sadly

I don't use it.

If you're a true MS hater you can't use TypeScript either. /sarcasm

If you work as developer, depending on where you work at using code editors with features like remote SSH is a must. If you are just a hobbyist even coding on Nodepad++ will do.

I love vscode. But this thread made me want to learn neovim just so I don't have all my eggs on a single basket.

Vscode, the chrome browser with a ide suit. No thanks

I need to use VSCode at university because their version of neovim is too outdated for my config...

Vim. viiiiiiiiim

It's definitely one of those "a broken clock is still right twice a day" situations. It's a good product and I find it invaluable for PowerShell scripting. I have, however, been trying to dial in emacs for PowerShell.

I use na-no :3

I use neovim for the vast majority of the programming I do but I do still have VSCode installed. Maybe I should just delete it? I opened it after I saw this post and there was a whole bunch of extension updates just sitting there.

Kinda wish GNOME builder was a bit better at being a general purpose editor. That's just because I'm a bit of a GNOME/GTK pervert though and I would love to use a sexy looking app for dev work.

And vscode doesn't even work properly. The amount of colleagues I have using it for C++ and they can't even get intellisense working with the f-ing thing. It's bonkers they work that way. It takes them ages to do anything, and its not a case of them being super experienced and not needing those aides.

Vim and screen have always met my coding needs

I honestly don't get it. I had to use it on a job until recently and needed a few plugins for it to be useful. Every major plugin either got worse over time or never fully functioned to begin with. On top of that, it was sometimes slow as fuck despite me having a rather strong machine.

Just learned about zed and helix yesterday.

Even Codium is pretty bloated though since it's still electron.

Also Sublime Text supremacy

Because it's one of the few good microsoft products

baby steps. ill be on neovim one day i swear!

Intellisense is the reason

vim and neovim actually hold a pretty significant marketshare on Linux. a lot of developers use MacOS or Windows, so what does it matter if one more small thing is proprietary? It obviously does matter, but people don't think of it that way.

Not me, i use and like a lot QtCreator... Granted, i work with C/C++ so... But its Open Source, cross-platform, has tons of integeations with analyzers debuggers and various tools.

Kdevelop never triggered my bells and CodeBlocks just doesnt feels right for me, but thats me.

For everyrhing else vim or kate depending on how i feel.

It's quite common knowledge, Microsoft does horrible operating systems but great dev tools. Visual Studio (not vscode) was amazing to develop software.

And thanks god we don't have to deal with Eclipse anymore.

The real question would be why the open source community cannot create a better dev tool that's not outmatched by a glorified text editor.

I actually do not use it, not out of any kind of moral stance but it just runs slow for me.

Y’all use VSCode??? Whatever happened to good ol’ Sublime Text?

I hate Windows. I'm too young for all that Microsoft drama, so they're fine in my books.

I'm thinking of ditching it. It's been pretty awful lately. A lot of the official extensions I relied on have regressed to the point of being useless.

Also, releasing a FLOSS editor and then forcing you to use a proprietary build with telemetry if you want to debug .NET code is the most Microsoft thing ever.

If you really dont like a company and its products you must vote with your wallet or usage in this case. Its that simple. The reason why people that dislike M$ still use vscode and/or windows is simply they actually dont care that much and mostly make noise. I vote with my wallet and have a full jetbrains subscription, I use most their IDE's everyday and its been great. Anyone really depending on income through coding must acquire the best tools available if they are reasonably priced so be it.

And one tought: i do despise microsoft and i dont care if any of its products seems good. They re there to infiltrate and destroy, they have always been from msdos times, and rest assured thats what they will do also with vscode/codium.

Do not fall into this trick, make good products better, dont piggy back on who showed to stick it in your rear end again and again over time.

I don't hate Microsoft that much. But I do hate that remote ssh for a while didn't work on codium resulting in having no choice but to use vscode and getting used to it.

What's interesting about it?

Have you had a merge conflict yet? A breeze to manage with GH Desktop + VSC

I also use Bing. I hate big companies in general, but I will use their products if they're good. Google is an exception, because to use their products I'd have to sign into my phone, and give them even more access, which I don't want to do.

Definitely dislike MS, generations of my workstations have small, yellow "Microsoft Free Workstation" stickers on their monitors, but VSCodium (in my case) is not really bad.

Also I really like the Xbox360 console and (as a hacker and maker) still love the first Kinnect. The Kinnect is an excellent piece of sensor-hardware, was rather cheap when purchased in used condition and it works very well with Linux.

kibi master race

honestly, after atom died and vscode announced it would stop supporting mac, i knew i needed a change. i found i could replace 80% of it with tmux and vim plugins, and some bash tricks. so thats where i am now. it takes commitment for sure

I'm not sure why people even use vscode over vim

For all their faults, Microsoft are rather good at languages and the tooling around them.

You can hate Michael Jackson, but listen to Billie Jean.

You can say the same for Windows

Netbeans for the win(at least for Java, I don't know how good it is for other languages)

Why would anyone on Linux use VSCode??????

I like messing around with my system, using foss software and all, but when it comes to programming, I just want it to work without me having to do extra steps... VSCode works without too many extra steps and it doesn't require a masters in vim to use... I can live with microsoft knowing that I'm learning html and C#

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

I hated Microsoft in the 90's and 00's but today's MS is not that bad. VSCode in particular is a good example of MS now being a good citizen of Open Source.

And as other said, if you don't like the telemetry in VSCode there are forks without it.

@flashgnash also edge is a great browser we just hate it because of the way they force you to use it

Run three flavours of Linux at home and love Microsoft. Why does everything have to be in opposition?

We got to be mature. Microsoft (and many other corporations) are a problem due to their unfair practices. But this is not a moral war against them, when we are not the problem. If we have vscodium, which is opensource and it has telemetry removed, which is the problem?

I would be happy if they didn't made the internet a worse place, if they weren't greedy billionaire assholes, if they didn't have a monopoly, but vscode does not affect my sleep.

I hate Windows and dislike a lot of Microsoft products, but I think we're way past Microsoft being the bad guy. They kinda like Linux now, and probably do more good than bad for it. There are much worse companies in tech, I think Microsoft's worst crimes as of late is creating Teams and being boring.

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nope, I deeply hate microsoft and I don't use their products. Millennials don't know the history.

Most of this thread reminds me how unbearable the open source community can be.