misogyny is a skill issue
Always has been, weak men can't stand women outpacing them, this is not limited to gaming but basically anything and everything.
223Had co-workers say they would never marry someone making more than them. Shit is so weird.
122It shows how stupid and against your own best interests this kind of thinking can be.
I am the full time worker in my family, and happy to be the provider for them. However, I would be a stay at home dad / house-husband so damn fast if my wife got some random job mom making a lot more than me. I do have my priorities in order, after all.
44Permanently Deleted
24I'd do housework and care for the kids in a heartbeat if my wife made enough.
22My genuine theory is that many (if not most) people are emotionally stunted or emotionally immature. You don't get this kind of mentality from someone who is balanced.
Now expand that to every facet of life and you get the world we live in.
4Hahahha most of our relationship i made more than his lordship. Now he makes more than me and he hates it. He wants to be a kept man, dammit
4I'd love to be a kept man. I'd wear skimpy outfits and work out every day and have all the chores done and a hot meal on the table when she gets home every day.
2
It would be interesting to see if it's really because of how they are as individuals or more about the response to social status thing. Like if they did an experiment where high performers were deceived into thinking they were actually performing poorly, and vice-versa, would the attitudes towards women be reversed or not? The conclusions in OP seem to imply the researchers think they would be.
18The issue with this is it’s too simplistic.
What it’s actually saying is “it’s easy to not be misogynistic as long as you’re significantly better than all the women”.
It does not imply that you won’t be misogynistic as soon as you are threatened.
Ie when status quo is maintained (patriarchy is intact for you) it’s easy to support women.
18The reverse is not true unfortunately. Skilled men are often mysoginistic assholes too.
14Women being better than me at something, especially something I'm interested in and have some skill at, is so fucking hot.
2Menopaused hands typed this
-5Weak men femboy OMIGOD WHERE AAWEWAWEREWA AAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAaaa jwidiieiqjajzb bnwnsn sbhdhdhehehshhhhhbrhdhhhfh
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Ain't just gaming. I dropped a note on a home tech forum while being visibly female and very rapidly realised i'd forgotten how fucking neckbeardy rank amateurs are
I've been a network/systems engineer for 25 years, my fellow pros would never be so gauche.
Except dev.
109It’s weird with devs. Most of us are fine but there’s definitely a sizable number of “tech bros” that absolutely are misogynistic. And it’s probably worse than I realize not being the target of it.
30Also, a disturbing number of misogynistic people in web design/web dev needing help from technical support. It was rather shocking and educational for me, as a cis male, to work as a support supervisor. I never anticipated the level of sexism and harassment that my female techs faced on a daily basis.
Everything from asking of they want to do porn to "can I talk to a man". I had several techs that had to change the names that they used for customer communications to male or neutral ones due to the severity on the unending sexism despite regular warnings to the customers that this behavior would not be tolerated.
6Working sysadmin gets you four times more abuse because it's the crux of 'mean person won't let my idiot arse run rampant on a system because they're mean and i hate them' and 'fuck youse wimmen don't tell me what to fucking do'
3
All I heard was men submissive to men
71Low elo men confirmed biddable and breedable
22Amen
1
Nobody fears competition more than the mediocre who only get by on the weight of their privilege.
59Hasn't evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?
I think it's much easier to say that dudes have it hammered into their heads that girls are bad at games, so when they underperform and a girl is on their team, they feel emasculated. This isn't too far off from when dudes end up losing their 'bread winner' status in their relationship. They were told they had explicit traits to exhibit and they failed to do so, so it hits them in their self esteem. Classic fragile masculinity.
Patriarchal conditioning makes way more sense than "caveman brain HATE competing with woman!".
48Hasn't evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?
It's not without a good heap of criticism, that's for damn sure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology
I tend to think the social angle is more credible Because the behavior of being a dick to female-sounding voices in games is not a universal behavior. Those who aren't misogynists don't act that way. How strange.
20Yeah, the problem is it slips too easily into essentialism. "Oh we evolved this way, nothing we can do about it I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Especially for questions like this, which could pretty easily be explained by cultural influences, no need to bring evolution into it.
19The entire field of evolutionary psychology debunked? Do you mean the idea that our brains are subject to evolutionary forces like every other part of our anatomy? No, not debunked.
This is conflating specific methodological problems with theoretical claims. Yes, many have criticized the game theoretical methodology typical of evolutionary psychology. There are a lot of highly speculative junk claims out there. It’s also true that some (not all or even most!) cognitive scientists think that we cannot take the perspective that psychology evolved at all. But it is certainly untrue that there is some consensus that evolutionary psychology has been “debunked”.
This criticism is also a bit ironic given the highly speculative nature of the claims you put forward. Your guess sounds plausible I suppose, but I see no reason to think it’s any more methodologically rigorous.
15Hasn’t evolutionary psychology been heavily debunked at this point?
No. On the most basic level it shouldn't really be terribly contentious that evolution has an impact on psychology, on a more detailed level, well, they have their hits and misses just as every other field.
Patriarchal conditioning makes way more sense than
...case in point "everything is socially constructed" is just as bonkers a position as "everything is biologically predetermined". Why do people have to universalise their specialised area of investigation and “caveman brain HATE competing with woman!” is a rather cartoonish take on evolutionary psychology. If anything it'd be "young male annoyed he can't hunt for shit while female age-peer can because he wouldn't be able to provide for her while heavily pregnant". Note that not being annoyed in that case doesn't require better hunting skills, only sufficient ones, and "annoyed" can lead to "will work harder on his skills" or "is going to lash out" or "becomes depressive and walks into the desert" or "is going to look around, see all those capable hunters, and focus on hut building instead". There's a fuckton of behavioural flexibility left there.
Bad social conditioning then comes into that and shapes tendencies into caricatures of themselves, or good social conditioning comes in and, well, does good things. It's not an either/or thing, pretty much everything is both nature and nurture.
7I was about to point this out - evopsych is an essentialist pseudoscience. Human interactions are governed by culture at least as much as they are by biology.
6Human interactions are governed by culture at least as much as they are by biology.
And evolutionary psychology is not claiming that it isn't. Your strawman is essentialist pseudoscience, agreed.
2
Idk man. I am shoving respect into my son's head at all times, I show respect and love to my wife/his mom all the time, and he is misogynistic AF. I don't get it. I am trying so hard to raise him to be respectful towards women and he just doesn't accept it.
He's 7, ADHD, Autistic, etc. But I really don't know if that even has anything to do with it because I am, too.
I wouldn't say it's been debunked. Probably improbable, but in no way debunked
1
Can someone please find the article they are referencing?
Edit: found it https://www.psypost.org/2015/07/study-low-status-men-who-bad-video-games-likely-bully-women-online-35901
45- 30
There's further discussion in the second link where the original authors stand by their claim.
The two use different statistical methods to try to demonstrate the conclusion, and that's where the difference lies.
I'm not a big stats person, but I'm coming away feeling like the original claim is valid since a) it was shown in two different models the original author used and b) it makes intuitive sense to me.
12
Talk about being the change you want to see in the world. Thanks for the link, I appreciate it
4
What I would be really interested in, is how does it play out in reversed scenarios.
How do inexperienced women react to a singular man commenting in a competitive area that is female dominated, do you see the sane sorr of vitriol from lower performing women, vs welcoming behavior from better performing women?
40Well if you want a reversal you need to be true to the parameters: get an experienced male operating - not commenting - and you need to do so NOT in an area dominated by women.
Because the gender split in gaming is almost 50/50. A 1% difference is negligible
3That's true for all video games but most competitive games with an esports scene will have many more male players than women. A lot of this is due to the extra toxicity female gamers experience in those scenes. Not only do they have to deal with the usual toxicity that everybody does when playing those kind of games, but also have to deal with the misogynistic and rape comments on top of that.
I wish it wasn't the case, and it does appear to be changing with time, thankfully. I notice quite a few more women in Counter Strike 2 than I have in past iterations of the game. I hope to see many more women in competitive esports in the future.
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Loser gamers are mad screaming chimpanzees confirmed
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3
Well in my observation the weaker players are quite often the more toxic ones. The "what a safe" spammers in rocket league are often the ones getting carried.
18That's part of the strategy, nothing tilts people like the bottom scoring talking shit
1If someone's so busy emoting in RL they ain't playing hard enough.
1
Scrub == scrub
Got it
10Based af
8Evo Psych is a garbage field for frauds but I would buy insecure dudes expressing more misogyny.
8Evolutionary psychology is very much a real science. But like every other science, it is based on a lot of assumptions. So the actual scientists work mostly on boring theoretical questions, while the frauds often come up in the news pushing some pseudoscientific defence for their bigotry.
1
I disagree with the conclusion. My experience is anecdotal, of course, but I'll share. I'm a gamer female with a husband and grown son. Husband is gone now, but the three of us gamed quite extensively together and separately for years, playing various MMORPGs and MOBAs, among other things. My son is exceptionally good at gaming, I am mediocre and consider myself a proud "filthy casual," and my husband was absolute dogshit - to the point I had to leave my chair and go help him by taking over the controls to get him past certain difficult hurdles (and my son does the same for me on occasion).
My husband's ego was never threatened by this. He never took his frustration out on me. Why? Because he was a decent person who was confident in his masculinity.
In the end, lack of skill does not cause misogyny. I believe misogyny springs from the same source as the lack of skill: a tiny brain.
7Not saying I agree or disagree with the author. However you being his wife did not result in "female-initiated disruption of a male hierarchy" (their words) so it's not really an argument against their hypothesis.
(Of course your husband being nice and not a dickhead probably also plays a role)
12TLDR: correlation != causattion
8Yeah but I doubt your husband would flame you because you 360 no scoped him, becsuse you are also within shoe throwing range
3
That's a rock fact
7The study for anyone interested.
There's a bunch of articles written about the study. As much of a shitshow as you'd expect.
2Where is the link to this research? Because I do not believe you, OP
-6Look up the keywords on Google Scholar?
3It took seconds to find.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613
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