Oh no, Anarchists!
Oh no, Anarchists!
283 comments
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Was the credit cut? Bc Existential Comics really be a classic
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Don't know is EC has that signed in the image tbh. I just crossposted in this case.
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If I recall correctly, a lot of the comics (at least early ones, I haven't gotten very far) don't have credit on them.
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ah ok, I did not know that
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As much as I abhor the state and wish we live like the state of Cheran (ironic of me to say state in this case, I know), anarchy will only work in a very small group, where everyone knows each other, are like-minded enough to not abuse each other's goodwill, and respect each other's personal boundaries.
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So have a lot of small groups
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Free trade and mutual cooperation between collectives, I thought this was considered the standard anarchic model?
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Yes, our massive population and current way of life are not natural tendencies of our species, they are organizational forms put into place by rulers for more effecient exploitation.
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I also wonder what happens as new generations start to become prominent, they might not have the same ideals as their parents and either move away or change the dynamics of the group.
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Yeah, that's not my favorite. I don't really want to rely on people or be part of a close community like that. And I really like having personal property. I probably contribute the bare minimum to society outside of my taxes. Not part of any organizations, don't give to charity. Definitely don't give to the homeless. Don't volunteer. I just want to work and come home to my house with my family and all my stuff. I'd make a terrible anarchist.
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Why do you mention personal property? Anarchism and communism still allow ownership of personal property, but collective ownership of the means of production such as factories and schools. You could do everything you do now in a socialist or anarchist society.
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What's the alternative that works?
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That's what we're all trying to figure out.
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Anti-anarchist pretty much think
- Anarchy = chaos
This is heavily promoted by mainstream media and language
- Anarchists are pacifist
Many people seem unable to comprehend how a community might defend itself without a standing military and so assume we must be unwilling to defend ourselves.
- Nothing can be accomplished without coercion
Because most of us have grown up within strict hierarchies coerced to do things we don't want, we have trouble imagining any other way.
- Everyone is inherently a selfish asshole
This is probably projection in most cases
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The answer actually did surprise me!
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AAAB.
All Anarchists Are Based.
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Anarchism wouldn't get that far in the first place lmao
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Heck the state
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The state (could and idealistically) be the will of the people via proper democratic systems. It's just that right now most aren't that democratic, and unelected corporations have too much influence. (So under capitalism, I do think actual democracy isn't super meaningful)
I think if you want to have a functional civilisation (rather than just small communes, which with today's population is a pipe-dream) you need some kind of taxes, and now we've already arrived back at needing a state.
Collective spending is required for a civilisation, end of story. Anarchy is never going to build continent spanning infrastructure, ever.
Someone trying to accumulate wealth or power is going to ruin it for you. Sold you food with lead in it? Okay, what are ya gonna do about it? At a small, community scale this is easy, at civilisation scale, forget about it. You need some court system.
If you want to go live in a commune, be my guest, that's the only place anarchy can work.
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If Putin's and Bezos didn't arise in every society, you wouldn't need a government.
But they always do.
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They arise because they capture that state
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They arise because there will always be a small percentage of humans who are sociopaths. Simplified, this means they are willing to harm others, not just because they are starving and NEED to harm someone to get their basic needs met (which I'd argue most people are capable of), but even to take things they don't actually need. Since most people are not willing to hurt others to take things they don't actually need (usually even willing to bend rather than fight), sociopaths have a leg up on the rest of us. They were able to rise to power way back when the first cities were being built, and have maintained a sociopathic society ever since. Sociopathic tendencies are lauded amongst the corporate elites, and without them it is unlikely one will make it in the corporate world.
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They arise because the capture that economy. A state is not required to capture an economy. However, a state is required to have any hope of even remotely controlling the people controlling the economy.
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Ah yes the comic that deprogrammed me on anarchism
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This is so cringe.
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I don't see how anyone would be safe from thieves in anarchy.
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- Stealing, when it is done by most regular people is out of desperation. Decomodification of things necessary to live, and change in the socioeconomic system from a hierarchical one to a cooperative one would very likely lead to reduction in such crimes.
- I have a gun. (/s)
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You are misunderstanding why people become thieves in the first place, and how comparatively uncommon pure thievery is. The majority of theft is legal and is done in the name of capitalist profiteering. Not that break ins don't happen, nor that everyone will be a good person and accept a society of mutual aid.
Genuine theft will still occur. The consequences of something being stolen would not be the same within an anarchist society built on mutual aid. It is much easier to recover from theft when shelter, food, water, are all guaranteed things that you don't have to fret over. So the consequences will largely be interpersonal, grudges and disputes between people over less consequential things like valuables of some particular nature.
I am not of the opinion that violence of the community need be used on such a situation either. We aren't the police for Christ's sake. We can actually settle disputes in a proactive way that attempts to rectify the situation that precipitated the theft (maybe someone needs mental health help, maybe there are interpersonal issues) without kicking the shit out of anyone.
Violent crimes can be handled however the community sees fit. But things like theft or destroying someone's clothes should be handled proactively to ensure lasting solutions for everyone involved. Violence is a pretty bad deterrent for this kind of behavior.
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The state doesn't keep you safe from thieves now. The police are a reactionary force that shows up after you've been robbed and then do nothing to help you. The most you get is a police report to refer your insurance company to, if your stolen belongings were insured.
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A very real risk of punishment by the state if you happen to get caught is what prevents theft. Your argument conveniently left that important part out and presented a straw man argument.
The rest of these comments talk about unenforced theft like white collar crimes and other class war-like theft. Which just reinforces the idea that only state-executed enforcement of law is actually any good at preventing theft.
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Theivery is a result of material needs unfulfilled, not some random genetic drive to go stealing.
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You are free to steal. And the rest of the community is free to beat the shit out of you.
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Thats why were actually in a “anarchy always has been” meme.
We are free to ignore the law and to object any direct order.
We are free to join a police force and protect the state, to join a police force and kill a civilian, free to take a firearm and kill a police officer, free to be killed by a police officer
We are free to organize institutions and support those.
You are free to join a line of thinking which brings you to a state of servitude.
You are free to comply, others are free to hurt you based on but also regardless of what you do.
Anarchy always has been, always will be.
Sooner we realize how inevitable it is the quicker we can overcome the hurdle and to accept that: Only by also helping others can we truly better ourselves.
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A thief is safer under a state because the state can punish those who defend themselves. The point of the state is to be the only ones able to dispense justice.
If someone stole from me, me or my community can dispense justice without fear of the state. Communities tend to not fuck with each other too much lest they start battles, which nobody wants. Humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years without states.
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Anarchism is the result of controlled opposition brainworms that the bourgeoisie spread to prevent socialism from taking hold
Because everybody knows, anarchism is complete dog shit
Also, modern age anarchists suspiciously rant more about "red fash" than they ever stand up to actual fascism
Fuck them lol
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I doubt that. I think the pushback starts when you threaten somebody's cash flow. The women thing is a red herring.
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So... as soon as the society based on mutual aid starts?
Speaking entirely seriously, the reduction of societal relations in a capitalist economy to purely or even primarily material concerns conceals and denies the very real and very prominent place personal and cultural biases have. Oftentimes materially damaging movements are ignored until they begin to threaten cultural norms.
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BUT... think about the PROOOfits
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I thought the last sentence was "Rich you are"
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narodnics joined the chat
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I don't get it
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It's supposed to be funny bc the failed idealism of the Narodniks later lead to the individual terrorist approach of the "Narodnaya Volya" ("Peoples Will")
(this is not meant to be a jab at anarchists btw, just thought it was midly relevant and funny/ironic)
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What is the best example of something built by anarchists?
For the sake of curiosity I'd leave this quite broad. Buildings, institutions, inventions, art. What's the showcase example of what anarchy has created for us?
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40 hour work week. 8 hour day.
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I thought credit for both of those usually goes to unions. Which anarchists or groups of anarchists made the most significant contributions to the 40 hour work week or 8 hour days?
How did a philosophy of minimized government involvement contribute to the regulations and enforcement mechanisms around our labor laws?
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much of the basic technique in photography and film? not being a chattel slave? OSHA? there not being a cop city in atlanta just yet? several major art movements; really most of them at least since radio became a thing? the personal computer? FOSS(what about Lemmy, originally? was that anarchists?)? a major chunk of the muscle behind the positive parts of the early internet and trying to keep it free? modern shadow archives? most (by a very small very arguable margin) of the Russian revolution, before the Bolsheviks killed all the communists? organized labor? curry burritos? LOTR? the entire genre of science fiction?
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Next stage:
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Let’s think of fun comparison for a second. Mods/admins are government, judges and police at the same time. This is equivalent of an authoritarian regime. Now if the mods would be elected by users that would be a democracy. Then if there would be no mods - there we have - anarchism.
In authoritarian regime views of government dictate everything. In democracy people decide who will dictate a lot with various safe guards. In anarchy people directly decide what views are popular and what is a crime, sometimes by groupthink.
What it tells me is that among many anarchists groups some will be absolutely terrible place you wouldn’t want to be in for even a second and some will be amazing but it isn’t a rule but it depends on the people that make up the given group. Obviously if you are POC you would hardly want to be in a racist community, I mean they would probably kill you on sight with their views being very white centered to say the least. So you keep going to find your community assuming you luckily got away. Then you meet community of religious gun freaks flat earthers that you may want to skip as well. Finally you find your dream group but it was raided by some barbarians
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Let’s think of fun comparison for a second. Mods/admins are government, judges and police at the same time. This is equivalent of an authoritarian regime. Now if the mods would be elected by users that would be a democracy. Then if there would be no mods - there we have - anarchism.
That's not what anarchism is. I suggest you read first about what you're trying to refute
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How Anarchists see themselves vs the actual result of Anarchy.
283 comments