4 mo. ago • 98%

world’s first anode-free sodium solid-state battery – a breakthrough in inexpensive, clean, fast-charging batteries

pme.uchicago.edu UChicago Prof. Shirley Meng’s Laboratory for Energy Storage and Conversion creates world’s first anode-free sodium solid-state battery – a breakthrough in inexpensive, clean, fast-charging batteries

Hacker News @lemmy.smeargle.fans First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

61 comments

I've been reading about various breakthroughs in battery world for past decade or so. So far none ended up in a consumer product.

56
- You can go and buy sodium batteries already. They're not competitive with Lithium ion batteries in many mobile applications, but very much competitive for everything where price is more important than size or weight.
  
  Lithium has decades of research and industrial scaling behind it, it's hard to break into that. But especially sodium is on a pretty good path to replace it in large scale storage applications.
  
  63
  
  Sodium-ion batteries have been in development since 1970s and the lithium-ion batteries have been in development since 1960s. Not much of a difference.
  
  3
- I've been reading about battery breakthroughs for decades. And I remember when the latest in battery tech was alkaline, then Ni-Cd, then Li-Ion, and now LiPo. All of those have ended up in consumer products.
  
  50
  
  Also, the battery pack for a cell phone 30 years ago was about the same volume and weight of an entire smartphone, with a capacity of about 500 mAh. They are also far cheaper if you account for inflation.
  
  Batteries have improved incapacity by about a factor of 10 and the cost per watt-hour has reduced by about 99% in the last 30 year. All without a single advancement in the technology, apparently.
  
  /s
  
  32
  
  You skipped Ni-MH there, that was major for not having the memory problems of Ni-Cd. We still use those in AA and AAA rechargeable batteries.
  
  21
  
  A little pedantic note, LiPo is still a type of Li-Ion (maybe I got that right)
  
  and the bigger recent breakthrough was LFP (Lithium iron phosphate / LiFePO4)
  
  And probably safe to call Sodium-Ion and solid state the next big phases of development
  
  10
  
  Hey! Don't screw up Lemmy's Debbie Downer vibe!
  
  /s
  
  0
- LifePo4 batteries aren't Star Trek levels of advancement, but they sure have changed my life and those of a lot of people I know.
  
  But I do get your drift. It seems like everyday there's some new breakthrough, and all we see of it is unnecessary AI.
  
  17
- The same thing happened with a lot of awesome things you're using right now. But I understand your impatience.
  
  12
- QuantumScape is currently building the mass production line for a solid state battery and has been sending prototypes out to their auto manufacturer clients for testing.
  
  This Undecided with Matt Ferrell video has a good breakdown.
  
  Disclosure: I own 100 shares of QS
  
  9
  
  $5.05 a share. So for a mere $505 I could also own 100.
  
  1
- It takes around a decade to scale up a process. You’d be shocked at how long it takes to discover something, get investment, file patents, acquire licenses, construct facilities, manufacture the product, and sell to customers. And that’s what it takes to get to just the starting line of being in business.
  
  8
31
This seems like a pretty big deal, right?

25
- Indeed, the fact that they filed a patent is also an indicator that this is not purely an experiment, but a tangible way forward. Let's hope this can scale up quickly.
  
  33
  
  it's not just another article about a new revolutionary discovery because that's the only way to have funds?
  
  11
  
  Eh, the patent office hasn't had standards for practically for like a century, just that you describe a novel method
  
  9
  
  There's a pile of battery patents that are all game-changing but when a company decides to make a dedicated factory that's when you know shit is going down.
  
  8
- Yup. Studies on sodium batteries has been going on for years. If they finally achieve good enough state this is big since lithium is limited and expensive while sodium is everywhere. However sodium batteries will never be effective as lithium batteries because of the atom size. Lithium is much smaller than sodium.
  
  13
  
  Well we are in dire need of grid size storage so this is excellent then.
  
  14
  
  True, but this is solid state so it may be higher density than current Lithium based batteries. But it might not beat a hypothetical lithium solid state battery. On the other hand, sodium batteries today beat out lithium in many other ways than capacity, and if those things are true for solid state then as long as there is a big enough jump in capacity due to the solid state transition then I think sodium is going to be the go-to for most uses in the future.
  
  3
Wait... did they do all three?

19
- “Global action requires working together to access critically important materials,” Meng said.
  
  So... nope.
  
  14
  
  Huh ?
  
  What information are you trying to convey by quoting that sentence from the article?
  
  7
  
  But the materials are more easily accessible for sodium. It's just supposed to have less capacity by volume.
  
  Edit: that portion of the article you mentioned is talking about lithium ion
  
  2
  
  Fuck
  
  0
- there should be 4th bubble "easy"
  
  4
  
  that's what fast is for.
  
  2
- Probably not fast. You would have to setup tooling and manufacturing and supply chain. That takes years.
  
  2
Ah, these are the aluminum dust under pressure solid state batteries. I wonder how much pressure.

6
- They have the pressure of reversing climate change so very high pressure
  
  6
  
  The decarbonization of our power grid will thankfully not be up to a single technology, but a multitude which are all seeing development simultaneously. Solar is reaching for better efficiency and less harmful creation, batteries of all shapes, sizes, and concepts are popping up from everywhere. It feels more like a race now than a slow decline into uninhabitability.
  
  3
- It does say "during assembly [...] to form a solid current collector while maintaining a liquid-like contact with the electrolyte".
  
  After it's made it could be not under pressure at all.
  
  6
  
  I would think they'd need to keep the liquid like contact that's available under pressure.. But I'm no battery scientist.
  
  1
Any way to read the paper published without subscribing to nature?

3
Shirley Meng's showing off her lemon jacket and big watch drip. Power on.

2
Calling BS

-6
- No batteries are ever anode free so you are right to call bullshit on this title ...
  Yet, what they meant was that, at the time of fabrication, there is no sodium at the anode side and only while charging the battery, sodium is deposited so creating the anode.
  
  17
  
  Also BS because this is such a common BS article "Amazing breakthrough in batteries will change everything and is 100 times better!"
  
  Always BS
  
  2

You've viewed 61 comments.