Philips Hue will force users to upload their data to Hue cloud

Ah yes to make your lights work, we need all your data. Stuff like this is why I don't have "smart" anything.

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It’s perfectly possible to have a smart home that does not call home. Home Assistant is an amazing piece of software that can allow smart devices from different manufacturers talk to each other without connecting to a cloud service — all done locally.

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- This is the only way I would go about it. Maybe in the future if I really want it but really, the more tech, the more vulnerabilities. I'm fine with manually turning things on and off even if it's self hosted.
  
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- If i understand correctly this is Home Assistant saying that Hue is taking away that ability on devices people have already bought and installed.
  
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You can have plenty of smart home stuff without this junk using stuff like home assistant and keeping devices like this from phoning home. Some products won't work at all without an internet connection but plenty still do.

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Edit: If this is actionable, I would be interested in participating in a class action suit against Philips for materially altering a product’s functionality after purchase. This is like buying a normal car and being told a year later it was given a remote update and now can only use Ford (tm) brand gasoline which costs $10/gallon.

If you do have an existing investment in Hue products, I suggest reaching out to them to request a refund because your purchase was made under a different policy, and this policy change is going to render your products useless without consent on your part. If they’re going to force a significant change that compromises the functionality of what might be hundreds of dollars worth of equipment without permitting recourse for legacy users, they should have to accept returns on what essentially is now a product you did not purchase and would not have purchased.

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Or just get a ZigBee hub and keep using the bulbs without the Hue hub

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- Indeed I've never even installed the hue app, always assumed it was just a zigbee thing anyway. The hardware is just a basic zigbee bulb.
  
  Mostly I've been moving to using the ikea ones though as they're much cheaper.
  
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- Any recommendations for a Zigbee hub to use with HomeAssistant? I'm planning to make the switch now that Hue is doing this
  
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hundreds of dollars worth of equipment

More like thousands, Hue is way overpriced

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If someone does this let me know. Every bulb in my house is hue.

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I started the email thread with them on Friday. So far I’ve only received canned messages like they told the HA folks.

Guess I can sell that Hue hub after I move my Hue devices over to my HA/Zigbee config — what wasn’t broke and didn’t need fixing… will now finally be fixed and finished.

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After they make the change, someone with an old Hue bulb should go to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Making this decision retroactive is clearly false advertising and anti-consumer. I don't really give a shit what their terms of use were.

They can do what they want with their future bulbs. The old ones need to be grandfathered in.

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Many years ago i bought an RGB LED and naively thought the remote signal must have some standard protocol, because it is so simple commands that would allow for some cool shit if automated. Oh boy was i wrong. Proprietary smart home software is the most insane. How on earth should your home become "smart" when it is locked into some ideology (manufacturer) or worse yet you have multiple "parties" fighting over the government causing a shutdown.

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- NGL you kinda went into left field at the end there, but I still agree.
  
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The update was impossible to revert (though TP-Link said "Ok write to our support and we'll give you the downgrade file" no fuck you).

That doesn't sound like it was impossible, it sounds like you just didn't want to do it.

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There is esphome too, it's not used a lot by fabricant yet, but still exist and compatiblr with all devices using an esp as chip.

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Pi-hole.

My two top-blocked domains are related to TP-Link.

While I can’t always get local-only devices, I can at least separate their traffic and block the shit out of them.

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Why do they do this shit? Is "User A turned their lights on at 9 AM" that valuable of data that they'd disable third party shit?

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Tasmota is great but I've found the number of available devices is limited. For instance Tasmota smart dimmer plugs do not exist, nor could I find a stand alone controller.

Z-wave or Zigbee integration dramatically expand the number of available options and work with local controllers.

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IoT stuff isn't safe to use unless it's flashed with a third-party Free Software firmware like Tasmota or ESPHome.

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I mean IKEA is fine.

It's entirely ZigBee, there's no internet.

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- But the green part of RGB only works if you're using their app
  
  Edit: downvoter, please let me know what's bothering you about this?
  
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ESPhome for the win! I have like 12 smart plugs with power monitoring flashed with ESPhome

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- I have 8! (They're literally the only smart home devices I have so far, although Home Assistant automatically detected my Roku and my printer.)
  
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Thankfully, while I have a smart plug from them, I've made sure that it's a Zigbee powered one, meaning it's directly connected to my Home Assistant server over it's own frequency/protocol, no app required. Guess that choice is paying off now.

Also, someone should tell whoever is managing that Twitter support account that you should never use the phrase "We're sorry you feel that way", even when you're going for a non-apology.

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Isn’t the “take it or leave it” approach to consent considered consent bundling? Didn’t google get fined for doing a similar thing?

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Start leaving 1 star reviews in the app stores from Google and Apple complaining about this.

They read those because stakeholders who understands nothing about tech only care for more stars.

I'm definitely starting to find a way out of hue and freezing my plans to buy more bulbs from them.

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I was forced to move (landlord sold house) and when I got to my new place, I just never got around to setting up any of my smart home devices. Thermostat, cameras, lights, assistants, sensors, monitors, etc, and weirdly enough I am somehow happier now.

The random issues, glitches, delays between asking an assistant/pressing buttons before an action went through, fixing integrations, fixing Home Assistant, fixing random unpairs, etc. was driving me nuts. Especially when you have invested hundreds/thousands of dollars into premium devices.

Worst was when you'd ask assistant to do something, and it somehow misheard you and does something else. Fried an aquarium thermometer that way. Turned on ALL lights when everyone was sleeping, despite me asking to turn OFF a very specific light..

The only thing I truly miss is being able to turn off my bedroom light when I am in bed. But the stress I save is worth getting up and turning it off.

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Huh, sounds like a very unreliable setup. Admittedly mine is much simpler and I refuse to use voice control for anything at all, but I experience zero glitches with my Shelly switches and HA integration.

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Put a lamp on your nightstand, it's a fucking game changer. We have a ceiling fan with the main lights, but lamps on both nightstands. It rules, always within arm reach, light immediately if you need it, but much softer light than the main light, and not pointed into your eyes when you lay down.

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The only thing I truly miss is being able to turn off my bedroom light when I am in bed. But the stress I save is worth getting up and turning it off.

It is possible to just install the one smart light, you know.

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You can get remote controlles for lights and keep it on your bedside table

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Fried an aquarium thermometer that way.

How did that happen?

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- Asked assistant to turn off basement light and instead it turned ON "10 gallon aquarium heater".
  
  However it heard that, no idea.
  
  My girlfriend was cleaning her tank, and the water level was below the heater. I was somewhere else in the house, and so she never noticed, and within 60 seconds the thing shattered from being turned on and not submerged.
  
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- When it works, it's great. But no matter how much you spend, which brands you go with, how you have it set it, eventually something is going to fuck up, and you'll spend half your day fixing it all.
  
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Companies these days: “help us think of products we can sell to procure data. No, we don’t care what the product is; we just want the data.”

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I often wonder are we in some sort of "data bubble"? all this obsession over collecting it but not actually providing stuff people will pay for surely has an endgame

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- I think the endgame is to speedrun getting filthy rich and buying up a chunk of the earth before it’s completely destroyed.
  
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reason: "your data isnt secure in your home, we need to control it. trust us. "

uh huh.

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5 months later: "We had a data breach, but we believe they didn't get all personal data"

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They're light bulbs. What data can they possibly hold on the users beyond how bright they like their bulbs.

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What times your lights are on or off can expose more than you might think over time. It reveals when you're gone for work, your sleep schedule, how many days a year you spend at home vs traveling/elsewhere, when you stay up late, etc.

But it gets worse. If you give Hue your email or install the app then now you can be uniquely id'd across other products. Hue will sell that data to some advertising agency, who also buys data from Google, Facebook, etc. Now your usage data from other systems can be combined with the Hue data and used to more even more accurately track your day and behaviors.

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- Big data is a fascinating field, if not completely horrifying.
  
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- Also when the keys are inevitably discovered on an unsecured S3 bucket, everyone will have it! In addition to your billing information and other PII.
  
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In addition to what the other commenters have said: They don't just sell light bulbs but also motion sensors that can even measure temperature.

So they wouldn't just be able to tell which room you're in at any given time but may also be able to tell when and for how long you shower or how often you cook food in the kitchen based on slight temperature changes.

And if you wanna get really paranoid: Hue Sync analyzes what's on your screen and synchronizes lights accordingly. Who knows what is really going on there if they pull this kinda shit lol

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It’s also not about what data they hold, but what data they have access to.

To you, it’s a light bulb, but internally, it’s a network-connected microcontroller, meaning it’s also connected to everything else in your network.

It theoretically could scan and exploit any number of security holes in other devices, including but not limited to phones and desktops.

Even if the manufacturer is ethical with it, other nefarious actors can use it as an attack point to try to gain deeper access. Some of these devices run a full Linux install internally, and if you know how, you can even get a shell session open on them.

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Welp, their products are completely out of the running for our setup then.

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and RIP to anyone who invested thousands into them. Those lights were NOT cheap.

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- Hopefully this spurs someone to go to the CFPB or something and sue. These companies need to stop pulling this retroactive change bullshit, like Unity, Wizards, ad now Hue.
  
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Anyone have a good resource for connecting existing bulbs to zigbee and moving off the hue app?

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I've been very happy with Home Assistant. There are zigbee USB sticks such as ConBee that work well with it, and home assistant runs on many different types of computers including Raspberry pi.

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To start off, you'll want to have Home Assistant running on a local server or Raspberry Pi and a Zigbee USB dongle, like the Conbee II or SkyConnect. If you've never worked with Home Assistant, their Getting Started guide is pretty comprehensive.

To migrate the apps off the Hue gateway, there's a section describing various methods to do so in the Home Assistant Zigbee guide.

I'll mention that there's also a whole bunch of other Zigbee gateways out there that work similar to the Hue Bridge, but these could all eventually share the same fate as Hue, if they aren't already forced to be online.

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- Cool.. I got a Phillips hue hub, but already have a Pi as well, Just never thought of using it this way. So I just need the Conbee II, and I should be able to make things work off the Pi. One less device to have plugged in.
  
  Besides the stupid login stuff, I've noticed a lot of my stuff just isn't as reliable as it used to be. It seems Phillips is just enshittifying things generally.
  
  Thanks for the links!
  
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Lutron FTW

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If I use Home Assistant for control and block the Hue hub from the internet, will things keep functioning as they are today?

I like how my stuff works and don't want them to mess me up.

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I would make sure the firmware can't be updated. Uninstall the Hue app for sure.

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To be safe long-term I would probably suggest to throw away the Hue hub entirely and get a Zigbee USB dongle for your Home Assistant server. Personally I've had no issues with the ConBee II. Home Assistant also released their own dongle earlier this year, called SkyConnect, which I've heard is pretty good as well.

(This is assuming that all Hue devices are based on ZigBee, which I believe they all are, based on this useful database.)

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- That's likely the path that I'll end up taking. Everything hue related that I have is Zigbee.
  
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Home assistant should shield me from this right?

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Huehuehue

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Hue stuff sucks anyway. If you own a home or rent and have access to your breaker box, Lutron Caseta is a much better option.

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Please note in many places it's very illegal to do electrical work for yourself

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- Where is it illegal for someone to change a light switch?
  
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Man fuck this. I use my lights in sync with my Philips tv when I watch movies so I can't even switch to a zigbee thing or anything.

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I hate to say it, but the Chinese competitor is better. Goveee doesn't ask for shit and its bluetooth

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Yeah... a Bluetooth light sounds terrible. I'd rather stick with ZigBee.

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Bluetooth, eh?

That bulb is communicating with an app on your phone, and I don’t need to tell you how much data that little glass slab collects.

doesn’t ask for shit

Neither does a rapist. It just doesn’t give a shit about consent.

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