Voting for the lesser evil is still evil

Ah yes, so the best option is to not vote and let them succeed unimpeded.

I'm all for voting for a better candidate, but we have a broken 2 party system, and it very much is if you don't vote for one of the two main parties, you are pretty much just not voting at all.

I don't vote for this person. I'm voting against that person.

also known as

No.

Look at how the system actually works. There are two choices. Both candidates have to compete for all the people who vote. If you sit out the election that doesn't mean either candidate will try to get your vote; they'll ignore you and go after the people who do vote.

Someone else came up with this analogy. It's like the trolley problem except the there's a third option. The third choice is to throw the switch to "Neither," but "Neither" isn't connected and the trolley kills someone anyway.

Fixed

There is a better way! Ranked choice voting means no more voting for the lesser of two evils. Look into fo yourselves and others - vote to change the voting systems near you!

I feel as though there's a significant amount of extra info that isn't strictly conveyed here.

The core issue is that you only have 2 real options in america, third parties may as well not exist. So, come election time, your harm reduction option is to vote for the least evil party.

But that's not the way to solve the issue, and neither is abstaining or voting third party, IMO. The way to solve the issue happens between votes. Picketing, protesting, demonstrating, taking action, making noise. You won't solve the broken 2 party system at election time. But you do have to actually get out and take action, not just say that you will and keep letting the overton window shift right.

(Take with a pinch of salt because I'm not american)

OK, what else do you suggest? Not voting? That just speeds the process up. Voting for the small but much better option? In a FPTP voting system (like the American one that I assume you're talking about), the spoiler effect means that's as good as not voting.

This is my issue with the leftist community in general, and especially the ml group. Because of idealism, they seem to ask for something that doesn't exist and not accept anything else.

*Long term effects of a broken 2 party voting system...

FTFY

The short term effect of voting for the "greater evil" (or not voting at all): straight to the far, far right.

Your caption totally doesn't match these graphs.

'The lesser evil' might as well be left (leaning) from the majorities POV. In that case the shift would be to the left. And furthermore you seem to be assuming that this shift continues because you keep voting for the 'lesser evil'?

I think that's contradictory. Voting for someone is telling them you like their course best. Why would they change their course if they are already getting the votes? (Or lead the polls?) They would only do so to capture another parties audience - and only if their own ideas are not popular (enough) already. So the contrary is true: Parties tend towards whoever is getting more votes. This is only logical, because that's ultimately what they need.

Having to vote for a 'lesser evil' just means your system is broken, corrupt, or you feel like you have no other option. In functioning democratic systems, you will see fluctuations based on the general sentiment towards current topics. What's currently going on tends to have a much more significant impact on voters than any ideals.

To give you a very simplistic example: Economy bad -> People vote for guy who (they think) will fix it. This was a big factor in Trumps victory. (And there are probably also more racist then you think.)

This is a lie. People just spread this to trick you into not voting so the Republicans win.

this is stupid.

Also the lesser evil kills all enthousiam and loses the election.

sfafsadfasdfasfd

Incidentally that's also the effect of not voting for the lesser evil, you can just cut out the two steps in the middle then.

Yep, that's why I always vote for the bigger evil.

Funny that a lot of people see this shit and immediately go but Dem and Rep, this shit applied for a lot of countries that have more than 2 parties. When the more popular parties are all shit people go with "lesser evil".

In other words, "B-but..."

Meanwhile, Trump takes office <again> in 2 months. Keep polishing that halo tho!

Voting for lesser evil is important although the lesser evil is still evil

Us commies weren't always "far" left.

Too many commenters here do not understand anything about how any of it works, especially how first past the post voting works. Progressives do not seem to understand that the system has not rejected them, but the voters have.

It is mostly relentless propaganda for the oligarchs that has captured the country. That’s the problem, and it is not fixed by any of the suggestions here.

More like the Overton Window at work actually.

Biden will likely end up as one of the top 5 most progressive presidents ever. Society expects more from Democrats than they would've previously. There's nothing wrong w/ that, but the argument being presented seems misguided and like both sides nihilism.

Not sure this makes sense. I think the window shifts right as people continue to vote right.

From the Wikipedia article about the Overton window:

The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is, and then moving to be in accordance with it.

Or we can go directly to the bottom frame like we're gonna do - but go ahead and keep rationalizing why your moral pedestal was too lofty to vote for Kamala.

IMO the only way around this problem in the USA is to either (A) get a third party to the point of legitimacy where people will take them seriously be winning seats in the house and senate, and eventually running for the presidency, or (B) win a primary in one of the two major parties. By election day there is nothing to do but vote for the least worst option.

Honestly I'm just at the point where I'm sitting back watching this country be torn apart. Everything anyone ever has done is wrong but also maybe it's right and everyone acts like they know which is which. The country is entirely divided when the war within itself kicks off I'll be just on my porch watching because I'm done trying to make heads or tails of this mess.

Because yes, "the left" never changes anything, and only goes further right.

(hint: That's not how this works)

Over the decades we've made massive strides in equal rights for various marginalized groups. But sometimes the dance takes a step backwards before moving forward again.

This is true, but it's also STILL WORSE to vote for the greater evil. You need to change the options available to you to fix this.

With only manufactured circumstance to fuel completely arbitrary result.

Wow.

Stay in school, kids.

You dumb fuck.

Couldn't you see that people are sick of "the lesser evil" they just let the greater evil win?

Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.

I'd sooner choose revolution than get caught up in justifying a bad choice presented by a broken and decaying system that's destroying the planet, people's lives regardless of political affiliation (ie healthcare), and shafting all but the rich.

Even if you accept the choice and choose and win with your lesser evil forever, in the end, you're leaving behind the cumulative total of shit on your children and their children. Yet people are content with that because you're reading Lemmy while shitting on the toilet, hopeless and desperate at the sad state of the world just trying to do what you can to soften the blow to your already chaotic life and the lives of your loved ones. What power do you have to raise a hand against your masters and force drastic change? And that's exactly the point of the choices and the divides.

Run for office and be the lesser evil.

With no scale this is absolutely meaningless

do you mean of not voting for them?

people don't vote, democrats lose, they think it's because they're too far left and move further to the right. meanwhile republican victories embolden them to push even harder into fascism

The image only works if the right always wins though?

You perceive it going the opposite direction of whatever you are.

Things move to the right when the right wins. Things move to the left when the left wins. If the center wins, then things don't move much at all. The lesser evil prevents greater evil