Liberal Death Cult

Voting gives choice and power. If it didn't make a difference they wouldn't try to stop you from voting

Roger Stone got Bush elected by swarming a court house

Trump has harassed the authenticity of voting, voting laws and registration rolls to prevent people from voting.

Of course it is, you're only panicking, not panicking while in incredible pain.

It is sad reality in the two-party states.

Nope the only choice is fascism and that which leads there

Sorry thats sounding suspiciously like action

Which is fascist.

The accountability of "making fun of things that suck"?

Omg I can't believe my hubris 😭

Just a little exploitation for my benefit, as long as it doesn't happen near me.

"How about half a genocide?"

No, you got it all wrong!

We shouldn't do fascism, we should do imperialism! since we're not affected, problem solved! Because as long as i don't see the brown people suffering, it's all okay.

As a treat!

No. If there is any hope of actual survival, that comes before all else. Accepting the slow death of "voting blue no matter who" means that there is no possibility of averting fascism whatsoever. It is an inevitability that if the only side representing "the left" is associating itself with a declining status quo while refusing to do any of the things necessary to keep that status quo functional, them people will abandon it, and if the only ones offering an alternative are the far-right, then they are the ones who will win. There is no hope of survival whatsoever.

There are, however, two possibilities that do offer some slim hope of surviving. One is that the Democratic party can be pressured into doing the basic, minimal tasks of governance necessary to avert fascism - tasks that they will never simply choose to do of their own volition. The second is that the left can establish a credible alternative outside of the organization of the Democratic party, whether electorally or otherwise. Both of those objectives are furthered by voting third party when the Democrats are offering someone insultingly unacceptable, while "voting blue no matter who" flies directly contrary to both goals.

You're thinking of it as doing chemo when there's no cure. That's not what this is. This is deciding to just take a nice little nap in the comfy snow because your legs are so tired and you'll totally get up again in just a few minutes, rather than choosing to get up and push forward through the darkness in the hope, however slim, of finding an actual shelter.

This "buying time to organize" line is constantly thrown around, I don't buy it as sincere at all, for starters. But regardless, time is not on our side, buying time only means allowing conditions to deteriorate further, it's just procrastinating and kicking the can down the line. And how do you effectively organize an alternative to the status quo and present yourself as separate from it while simultaneously trying to rally around it and supporting it unconditionally? It's nonsense.

What about working for the no death ?

No, sorry, there is only one thing, and all divisions are imaginary. You. Me. The ocean. Alpha centauri. The concept of corrugation. These are all the same thing.

Since we're on the topic of nuance, would you also say it is possible to support the liberal establishment in defeating facism while also pushing for change within the party?

As opposed to Tankies? Lol

No but see you spent an entire minute not calling out fascists while you responded to liberals saying we should accept the proper party submission position© for the fascists. So you're basically the same as a fascist. Sorry; i don't make the rules, i just fetishize and enforce them only on my ideological enemies.

Because a lot of the people in here didn't vote last election.

Because the better plan has historically always led to a failed state and all of our enemes are cheering it on.

When Anarchists and Tankies are capitalising on a situation the outcomes are as predictable as the Trump Agenda.

The royal we while you literally advocate against a united left and democracy

Alright but you're also additionally alienating the party who majority aligns with your supposed policy stances as well as the people who vote for them, unless you dislike accountability, democracy, and worker solidarity.

If the Democrats were willing and capable of getting Americans things like universal healthcare, why didn't they do it while they were in power?

democracy, the act of people voting for one outcome over another. is not inherently linked to any monetary system.

if i vote to grow potatoes in my garden lot, and others in my group vote for tomatoes, and they win, so we grow tomatoes, thats democracy. what we want to do with the crop afterwards, and why, is what links it to another system.

democracy by itself is not capitalist. its just used in capitalist systems, and various others.

My perspective is that you fight on ALL fronts and you don't leave power on the table for fascists to grab just because it doesn't fit in with your revolution fantasy narrative to do so. I never said nor implied that voting is enough. It isn't. But it is a simple way to keep dangerous people away from power.

They love globalization. We all love it's cheap consumer goods tho. That and cocaine. In those ways, we're all 80s republicans.

Liberal is anti authoritarian

Anti liberal = anti anti authoritarian = pro authoritarian

This is actually how it goes. Capitalism in Decline leads to some kind of fascism. Just think in terms of the interest of the capitalist class and how they guide the herd. Liberals are neoliberals and neoliberals are fascist. America is an imperialist, empire, and Nazis are the useful idiots of empire. You know, you could look at it like the Imperial Boomerang. It's not like we've changed. It's just the veil's been removed and the ruling elite is dealing with blowback as they continue to march forward towards their selfish goals. We are just keeping it real nowadays, living in the world of the lowest common denominator. First world nations usually turn towards fascism while countries that are more collectivist culturally turn to socialism. And we gotta go fash to the extreme before eventually anything changes because the herd does not recognize what they're stepping into. The herd does not know where it came from, where it's going, so it's only through collective suffering that anything will ever change, and it might even take a lifetime.

Why so aggressive? I interpreted the post as being about liberalism in general, not the two current US parties.

So if "the status quo" inevitably leads to fascism, the only way to avoid fascism would be a society that is in constant change? Well, for one thing, every society is in constant change unless you install some kind of religious dogmatic dictatorship, and even those break after some time under the stress of sociological pressures.

Fascism, or things very much like it, happen whenever you let fear mongering powerhungry fools who deny reality in favor of some kind of nostalgia infused "greater" image of your society get away with their bullshit.

Human leadership leads to fascism at some point, because humans love their fears and their tribal behavior.

Ignored? Biden did try to reunite with their families the migrant children who were caged under Trump's first term. Some couldn't be found because of the Trump administration's lax recordkeeping, but they didn't just ignore them. That's just a lie.

Nah you're right. Good thing trump is getting rid of them...OH WAIT.

A lot of people agree with you. In fact, so many agree with you that a lot of people in firm red and blue states didn't bother voting. Because of that, Trump won the popular vote, and people said it wasn't the electoral college's fault that he won. But it was. The electoral college made people like you lose hope that you could have an impact.

If more people like you had voted, then Kamala would have won the popular vote. If Trump had won without the popular vote twice, it would be obvious to the layperson than the electoral college needs to go. We'd have much more fuel for a popular revolution to dismantle the electoral college. Right now, people are hopeless. They think most Americans want Trump. Because of people who thought like you.

Bytemeister didn't say they don't have to do any direct action. You made that up out of nothing.

You have to do both. That's what Bytemeister is saying. If you didn't vote, and you're not actively in rebellion, then claiming you're the side who does direct action is an obvious lie. And they're right, you are lying. You're tanking our chances of overthrowing the government through revolution.

You need to re-read the comment.

They have to proselytize and guilt trip for a politician failing at their job of winning over voters.

It's not gaslighting if it's the truth.

By voting (or just not voting) you participated in the system. If you want to be against the system, then you need to overthrow it.

You played to lose, which was dumb, and you played to lose when there was nothing to gain, and everything to lose (which is even more dumb). If you aren't burning shit, then you never actually cared enough to be against it, you're an apathetic asshole who squandered their only voice to say "I don't care if the facists win, Kamala isn't perfect and I can't stand that". You may not have voted for trump, but you sure as fuck voted for all of this. I have no respect for the people that lack neither the intelligence to make the right decisions, nor the conviction to live with the consequences of making the wrong one.

Trump 2024, Trump 2020, and Trump 2016.

Stein barely got 100k more votes than Kennedy, who had dropped out of the race and endorsed trump.

I understand your satire, but clearly you did not understand what "Playing to lose" meant.

We’re clearly in a trend of rising authoritarianism, but that doesn’t mean it’s inevitable. Such waves have receded in the past and they likely will again.

I just don’t like these inevitability narratives because they deprive people of agency in shaping society. Sure, maybe liberalism has a tendency to creep towards fascism, at least under some conditions. But this happens through the actions of the people that make up those societies and it can be resisted.

Old age isn’t even a thing you can die from. This analogy fails on multiple fronts.

I completely agree. But to be clear, not all nations go down this path of increasing authoritarianism, and not all of those who do end up at fascism.

It might seem like a small distinction but this idea of the inevitable course of history is such a common thought terminating cliche and it leads to all sorts of wrong ideas and wrong political strategies that I feel a need to call it out. Even though my own position is not completely dissimilar.

Well I guess if you have a long enough timeline everything possible becomes inevitable. But I don’t think that’s quite what the meme is saying.

Yeah and there were a lot of quiet heroes in Germany who did small-scale acts of rebellion and saved a lot of lives by hiding people and helping them escape.

There's a lot of quiet libs doing small acts of rebellion hiding immigrants or escorting people to get abortion or providing plan b.

I feel like some of you "revolutionaries" have lost the plot, like the revolution only matters if it's big and cinematic. I think you've made it more about your ego and internal revolution LARP than actually helping people.

Germany' Republic fell in the early 1930s because a splintered left failed to form a government for years and a right wing party took control as a result.

Do you think I'm not angry about whats happening in the U.S.? I don't see you starting a revolution either, just typing on your keyboard. So honestly, how are you any different?

Your example, there should be a potential cost to the person. How much is a human life valued at these days? 4 million usd? They may or may not have to pay 4 million dollars to get this stranger treatment.

Resistance isn’t free. Setting up systems to ignore or cover the cost is nearly as important as the resistance.

OP wasn't suggesting helping people, but calling liberals a death cult for not overthrowing a Capitalist system.

So more like, you see that person on the side of the road, you help them, and the OP says "how dare you spend your time helping that one individual while living in a society that exploits people globally".

I don't think OP really meant that but it was low effort bait for fake internet points.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one more.

I can see the senate as exactly what you described since it grants equal representation to all states regardless of population. Thus granting more power to the lower population slave states of the south.

The three fifths compromise did bolster slave state population numbers helping them in terms of population based seats in the house and the population determination of the electoral college.

But the electoral college system still favors states with the highest population. It gave more power to the more densely populated northern states that tended to be against slavery. If anything is gave more power to the abolitionists. For example, imagine a Pennsylvanian farmer that lives along the border with Maryland or Virginia (rememberin this time West Virginia was still Virginia). They may see the wealth of these plantation owners and grow envious, people can be greedy after all. They may even be encouraged to vote in favor of slavery, but it wouldn't matter. Philadelphia was the most populous city in the United States at the time and would always swing the state away from pro-slavery candidates. Meaning 100% of the states presidential votes would go to candidates that oppose slavery. The free states almost always had the most electoral college votes. It was the senate that prevented slavery from being abolished.

Or at least this is my understanding, but I really would like to hear your perspective