1w ago

Chat, is this true?

76 comments

I unironically support this
- while I like this, I don't think I would be able to pronounce it, lol
  
  The assholes are trying to retake Denali from the indigenous people after we finally gave it back.

Looks like "not exactly," but it's cool nonetheless:
https://davidbowles.medium.com/pre-invasion-nahuas-and-the-gulf-of-mexico-22f30c515724
- Pfft. Lousy historians and their stupid . . research.
  
  I'm just happy that this semi-true fact led me to learn a whole lot about the nahuatl and their history!

Never heard of this goddess before but im glad i did. She's got some really awesome depictions!
- Yep... She's got some great 'depictions' 👉😏👉
  Always wanted a woman with a snake moustache!
  
  I need to understand the snake moustache. Is it a water breather so she can breathe above water while she feeds her children. She's really pulling that overtime.
  Also, who skinned the baby? He seems pretty unperturbed though.
- She of the Jade Skirt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalchiuhtlicue
  
  "Gulf of the Jade Skirt" sounds kinda badass.
  
  When I lived in Panama City Beach a lot of people called it The Emerald Coast. I'm not the best with colors but if someone asked me the difference between Jade and Emerald I wouldn't know
- Reminds me of Kali
  
  Like Kali's grandmother even. She handled the death and life since before there were even animals let alone people.

I really wish we could actually "rename" places as their original indigenous names across all America(s). For example my country had an internal turmoil just to keep the original name of its capital city because we love our native people, and yet we keep the incredibly stupid name of "Land of Colon" (imho most probably the most stupid name of any country, ever) because fuck our native people.
- I like that we call it Denali nowadays instead of Mount McKinley. I'm all for this.
  Now if I could just get South Dakota to issue me a new license plate without those faces carved into the mountain...
  
  did you miss this one?
  
  At this point, I don't know if America can heal with Mt Rushmore still there. I'm not saying we would blow it up, but I do think it might be good if it was blown up.
- Like, just the most recent indigenous names, or from one of them before that? It seems arbitrary to fixate on just one civilization just to avoid fixating on exactly one other.
  
  I mean, not that there have been tons of successive civilizations around here, so... And yet if that was the case, you'll need to take in account that oral lore may have had a hand in the names of places, so it's mostly improbable that a place has had completely different names with each civilization.
  (Edit: people downvoting/replying to this thinking I was talking just about the USA is hilarious - reddit syndrome much?)

I’m practicing the pronunciation right now.
- No problem, I'm Welsh
  
  How are you coping with the over abundance of vowels?
  
  I've said for decades that in order to cope with an insane world, people take up unjustifiable positions. Some people turn to God, others believe in causes, or whatever.
  Mine is that Wales isn't real and your language is a psyop. I'm sorry.

Somebody teach me the basic pronounciation, so I can make a slightly less fool of myself when trying to say it, and I'm on board with that.
- t͡ʃaːɬt͡ʃiwˈt͡ɬikʷeː
  
  Damn, those are some crazy phonetics
  
  this is somehow harder to pronounce

I'm all for finding a middle ground, which is why I will call it the Gulf of Canada, USA, and Mexico. Or Gulf of C.U.M. for short.
- Well played sir, well played.
- BP Playground

I'll do this starting NOW, if someone will just post a pronunciation guide! Please?
- Chalchiuhtlicue [t͡ʃaːɬt͡ʃiwˈt͡ɬikʷeː]
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalchiuhtlicue
  
  Thanks: that's gonna take some practise!
  
  Best I can do is this: chal-chew-KLEE-kway
  With some help from Forvo. The [t͡ɬ] sounds like KL to my Canadian ears and not TL (which doesn't happen at the start of syllable in English anyway).
  Edit: apparently that's just rhe the deity... Not sure what to do with the last few letters. "eh-kattle"?
- Yes please

My gal spelt out “Chalchiuhtlicueyecati” but abbreviated “associated with.”

If human bodies are mostly water, does that mean Chalchiuhtlicue has dominion over us, too? 🤔
- Given how we found that out, I would think the god that would have domain over us would be a Japanese god
  
  What are you doing, step-god sama?
  
  No, your Kawai ass god, isn't going to dom anyone worthwhile nowadays.

If we want to rename things (Mexico was a LOT larger in the olden times) why don't we call it "Gulf of the Americas?"
Oh because it doesn't support imperial single minded nationalism and isn't USA centered
- America is a continent, not a country. "Americas" is as correct as "Europes". But certainly those who decided to call it gulf of america are not aware of that.

Agree, at least it's the original name

Anybody got a pronunciation key?
- I think nobody would complain if you pronounced it "Cha Cha cat"

If I could heard that pronounced I would totally start call it that too
- Same. I see the wiki link, but those symbols mean nothing to me.

@Sal@mander.xyz - Do you know? I couldn't find many sources but I only speak English.
- EDIT: As indepndnt mentioned in a comment below, the OP was posted on February 14, which pre-dates the wikipedia edits. So, my conclusions below about the timeline are not valid.
  Hah, sure, let's investigate 🕵️‍♂️
  The term 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' was added as a potential Aztec name to the English wikipedia page on February 15, 2025, by user 'Mxn'.
  The description of the edit is the following:
  Frum says the Aztecs had no specific name for the gulf, which is plausible in a practical sense, but Fernández gives a specific religious name and is more of a reliable source on this topic
  If we investigate a bit further, we can see that the term Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl is described to be a name for the 'Gulf of Mexico' in the spanish Wikipedia: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl
  This page was updated to include the description of Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl as the 'Gulf of Mexico' in September 16, 2018. I don't have access to the citation so I don't know if the citation specifies if this term is still known/used.
  If you check the history you will find that the same 'Mxn' fixed a typo in this page on February 15, 2025.
  So, from this sequence of events it is highly likely that the term 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' was included into the Gulf of Mexico wiki page as a result of the user Mxn performing an active search for Aztec names for the Gulf of Mexico, and finding this connection between the term an the gulf by searching on Wikipedia. This information did not come from recent news about the term being used by natives.
  I can find no evidence of native people referring to the gulf of Mexico as 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' more frequently or at all. I can find no mention of this becoming viral in Mexico.
  I find it highly unlikely that:
  User Mxn added an obscure Aztec term to the Wiki page two weeks ago
  AND
  This same obscure Aztec term coincidentally began being used by Mexican natives, and this trend became popular enough to be noticed by foreign media but not by Mexican media
  More likely....
  Mxn actively looked for a term and updated the English wiki
  Someone read the English wiki, thought this would be a nice story, made the meme
  And this concludes my little investigation 🧐
  
  Haha, fantastic. Thank you for your work. ALAS! We have uncovered a deeper mystery! 🔍🔎🔎🔍🔎 🤔
  Is this the book? https://annas-archive.org/md5/fb8569c405991107b987fda775f49ba2
  
  Damn, look at you being awesome!
  
  The post in the screen shot is dated February 14, 2025 though?

Where and when was this decided by the Indigenous people of North America?
I'm interested to learn more about this. I've never heard this name when I studied the history of North America,

Anyone else seeing the part about licking cats?

google maps is showing Chaacosiano for me

No because it’s not a homogeneous people so it would have many different names/this wouldn’t be coordinated across NA

Not for the same reasons, but "also no, sorry. Still going with Gulf of Mexico."
I can meet you halfway and pronounce Mexico correctly, but that is beyond my abilities and I'm not ashamed to admit it lol.

I don't know if the name is too long or too short ...

You are doing it the wong way. The wight way to do it is to acknowledge the victory of the colonizers. Take Denali for example.
- I'm not up to speed on this I guess. I thought bringing back the name Denali was a good thing. Is there some more to the story that I'm missing?
  
  This same order gets rid of Denali and puts back Mt McKinley.
  Edit: I'm assuming from the negative voting that you were not the only one to not hear this part of the news.

76 comments