Banned from MeanwhileOnGrad after the moderator conceded there was no basis for his Uyghur genocide post

Seeing how Goat tried to ping db0 because they voted in the thread to drag them into debate, I'm gonna go with PTB on this one.

If they wanted to prove their point, they should have given links that proved their point.

Never mind that anarchists are explicitly anti-authoritarian, apparently db0 is a tankie now? Lol, yep checks out. Those twatwaffles think a "tankie" is anyone who is critical of the Dems, or of US foreign policy. OPs comments were also accurate imo regarding China's influence in Myanmar being a much stronger example of Chinese imperialism.
The libs have got some nerve getting hysterical about the Uyghurs when they obviously couldn't give two shits about their own government (and their own party) continually voting to keep supplying weapons to Israel in order to continue its genocide in Gaza. Has China been shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs? Yes, no doubt. Is it a genocide of the type and scale that Israel is currently waging? Absolutely not.
PTB
- I always said it was only a matter of time before the social fascists that call MWoG their home would turn on even dbzer0. It's the classic Nazi bar, they outright fabricate info, erase context, welcome Zionists and other fascists, it was only a matter of time before they got even greedier and started attacking anarchists for being "tankies."
  It's not a coincidence that they call us "roaches" or "degenerates," it's because it's a cryptofash meeting spot.
  Edit: lmao, seems I pissed off the social fascist. I couldn't even engage if I wanted to interact with your Nazi bar, because PJ bans me from every comm they mod because they lost an argument in a comm they don't mod. Go fuck yourself, fascist. Keep spreading hasbara, keep tending your garden of Zionists. Palestine will be free, and there's nothing you can do to stop that.
- didnt u ban me from a community for no reason
On top of everything else, using mod/admin privileges to reveal users’ votes is just bad form.
- The main reason reddit is shit is because it's so easy to manipulate votes. I'm happy most lemmy instances have public voting.
- User votes are public on Lemmy. One should be held accountable for their votes

I had been avoiding !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for around a month. I had previously unsubscribed from it as it seemed to get a bit unhinged.

I had to go back there in the last few days for a post about Piefed default defederation list.

People pointed me out that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works doesn't moderate comments such as

If it was russia or China starving people in Gaza, tankie roach would claim that “genocide isn’t happening”, “the BIA is seeding fake reports about starvation!” and “this is the best deradicalization program in history!”.

What a bunch of lying, disgusting degenerates.

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20140833/

I reached out to the mod, he told me to tell the hexbear people to check their own comments as well https://hexbear.net/search?q=cockroaches&type=Comments&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=New

I found one comment equating democrats to cockroaches

If the democrats start breaking the rules right back at them it's a whole new game they aren't equipped to play. They might adapt, they're cockroaches, but it could be a bridge too far. I think both sides are banking on the other side bluffing. But they themselves are bluffing.

https://hexbear.net/post/5850141/6412496

Maybe there needs to be another community to just report toxic users, with a diverse mod team, this two-way war (especially as both communities can't talk to each other due to defederation/community ban) just seems turn into a long term conflict where all parts assume the worse of the other.

That piefed Hexbear defederation post is weird. They are basically arguing that defederating from Hexbear by default is not a block.
Devs should keep away from default blocks unless it is objectively illegal or spam. Imagine if the Lemmy devs started blacklisting sh.itjustworks by default. That would cause some outrage. But they see no problem doing it the other way around
- The question boils down to: do you consider a default defederation list to be an inevitable block, or do you consider it a preset that can be easily changed afterwards, and should as admins should review their defederation list when setting up an instance anyway?
  At first people thought it could not be avoided, and were relieved to learn it could easily be changed: https://lemmy.zip/post/47192425/21066707
  For the context, what the change experience looks like for an admin
  This is exactly how it works. I started a PieFed instance and made the decision (during setup) to trim the defederation list down to none. Users can block on the account level.
  For screenshots and more details: https://wetshav.ing/comment/92409
- Hexbear's post is weird, acting like a blocklist is the same as hardcoding a "1-way defederation" as they try to frame it. They are such scummy manipulators.
I am the user you quoted in the first quote. Feel free to use my username directly with quotes about tankies being roaches and degenerates.
I stand by what I said.
I am from Ukraine, originally from Donbas no less.
It is just and correct (in the dictionary sense) to use the term degenerate when refering to tankies.
The tankie roaches don't speak any local languages, have never been to Ukraine (Donbas or otherwise) or even russia and claim any and all atrocities committed by the russians are a CIA conspiracy. I even had a degenerate tankie claim that there is no problem with speaking Ukrainian in the occupied territories (when there are russian propaganda video openly celebrating how they catch Ukrainian speakers and send them to torture basements).
How is this not degeneracy?
I found one comment equating democrats to cockroaches
~~What's funny is that a few members from Hexbear will use one comment calling out how people defend China no matter what roaches, means that it was somehow a bigoted remark.~~
Hexbear has double standards.
Edit: I retract my point.
- The issue I had was more that that guy was calling people 'degenerates', I don't like anybody calling people roaches, but calling people 'degenerates' is almost always the mark of someone being a fash. Hexbear has 'degenerates' in their slur filter, meanwhile it's constantly in use on meanwhileongrad.
  edit for the fash responding to me:

Genocide is also the extermination of culture and identity, not just mass killings. Amnesty as an organisation tends be extremely conservative with their approach and language (for better or for worse).

In Ukraine, they had a report saying that the military should leave all cities. Comically stupid stuff. I am not saying this randomly, I have two military facilities near where I live (albeit one that's really close is likely to be low priority for the russians). The leader of Amnesty Ukraine resigned over this report.

And considering the nature of MOG, it would be reasonable to expect a lower threshold for mod actions for tankie-adjacent content.

I am not sure if this is the place to continue the discussion, but you are free to step up for the admin and find another respected human rights organisation which calls it a genocide. The admin had to concede because he could not.
While the definition of genocide is so wide that it encompasses basically any mass killing, it actually means trying to exterminate a ppoulation. Ukraine has also not started a genocide case against Russia at the ICJ for obvious reasons. Russia has an ICJ genocide case against Ukraine which it will probably lose.
- admin
  mod, not admin (same for your OP)
- I am pointing out that there are limitations to Amnesty's approach. Not debate club stuff, but real issues.
  You wouldn't be this cavalier if you got to sent to a camp for going to a mosque in Xinjiang or if your wife or daughter got forcibly sterilized.
  I can guarantee you that!

And now Goat has banned all db0 users because we hosted the place that called him out. PTB.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog/9028

Maybe the next time they post about lemmyml’s “authoritarian” moderation, they might look in the mirror.
- Unironically as much as I disagree with many stances of some users on ml and your admins are a bit heavy handed at times you all come across as more reasonable than asshurts hurt turbo libs that inhabit places like SJW. Got banned from on grad for pointing out to pug Jesus anarchism isnt liberalism after I defended their point of China doing icky things in xingjiang. Smh.
- That would require self reflection, which most crying that seem to lack
DB0 is officially a tankie server now.
- According to them, because we don't like when liberals don't stop fascism, like we always have been. Shrug
50k MAU... Too many chiefs, not enough Indians
Bugger off, you fake leftist!
- We're the fake leftists for... [Checks notes] being banned because we called out someone's actions that allow Nazis. Okay.

PTB for sure, this is blatant bad-jacketing and their behavior in this thread is also extremely hostile.

@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works @kersploosh@sh.itjust.works @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works I'm not sure if this level of power-tripping or inter-intstance drama breaks any rules but just wanted to let you guys know that this is a thing since it's a community on your instance which was the source of the drama and bannings.

I promise you that the very last people to reject the Atlanticist Uyghur genocide psyop—if they don’t literally take it to their grave—will be the virulently anti-tankie Lemmitors who have emotionally invested so much in it being true.

Holy hell someone just linked the mod doing actual genocide propaganda. They are a massive Zionist.
Their posts are insane.
And two years into the genocide and they are claiming Israel is the victim of 'Arab violence'.
- not surprising goat is a zionist in addition to running a Nazi bar comm
  edit for the fash replying to me: + I'm an anarchist
- Not disagreeing with you here, but I recommend changing "insane" to a less ableist term, like evil.
- Were there insane posts other than the two in your screenshot? Because those are literally just news articles of political responses to the war. Sharing news of something isn't endorsing it, otherwise that would make a lot of people inadvertent genocide supporters.
- Oh hey you're doing exactly what I criticised this community for -- Interrogating peoples views as opposed to the moderation and whether or not the person, you in this case, deserved it.
  But you're also cherry-picking, three comments out of context, and three links from neutral sources when the conflict was fresh. Here are a random assortment of comments I've also made when you search Israel. Convenient how you left these out, note the dates.
  To make it clear:
  I believe Israel has the right to exist, but not the settlements in the West Bank, and certainly not as a religious state. But I also believe the same of Palestine, that it should be a state that can be held to international law and also not as a religious state. I find myself in agreement with Macron's plan for peace. I also believe there is great conflation between zionism, imperialism and antisemitism.
  If you are supportive of a two-state solution, where both Israel and Palestine have independent states, then you are a zionist as you believe Israel should exist. Israel's apparent plans to take over Gaza are imperialist and wrong, as is their response to the 7th of October massacres, but not all of Gaza is innocent either, as is evident by the initial attack.
  I think it's important to draw this distinction because extremist groups (which I have much experience with) often use zionist as a dog-whistle for Jew. It appears some people mistake neutrality or fairness as supportive of one side, as if there can only be one side suffering during wars.
  My personal view is that violence is wrong.
Let's hope you literally take your support of russian genocidal imperialism to your grave too.
Amazing how MAGA and Tankies end up talking the same. Oh, it's all just a psyop
- When does MAGA care about Gaza?

You come across as an insufferable asshole in those posts.

I did not use a single insult in all my comments.
And here you are surpassing that in a single one.
- Yeah, there are multiple ways to be an ass.

YDI, you should not have engaged in whatbousim, cherrypicking and then downplaying what the atrocities the uyghurs were facing.

While the followers of that community dwnnplay israel actions in palestine
- Not at all, my obese, burger eating friend.
  Imagine this; you can recognize the evil Israel is doing in Palestine and recognize the evil the Han Chinese are doing in Xinjiang.
They and the db0 admins have doubled down in this thread.
- It's definitely not a good look for them.

YDI.

I wouldn't want a "umm akshully" genocide denier around either.

How do you feel about the genocide of whites in South Africa?

I was expecting this post, thank you.

To start, you were engaging in revisionism and apologia.

Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.

Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present.

I'm fine if you have issues with genocide only being referenced three times in the amnesty report, but you also vehemently denied human rights abuses and the imperialism of current-day China, even arguing for a supportive imperialism, which there is no such thing. The Uyghurs are detained based on ethnicity, which is mentioned numerous times throughout the report -- you denied this.

Your ban is temporary, 24 hours. All bans on meanwhileongrad are temporary and are always given after warnings.

This community

You're also being disingenuous; dbo is not just 'another' user. They are the moderator of this snark community (and admin of the instance), which regularly interrogates moderator decisions or behaviour without actually caring if the user has violated the rules. This thread is an example of this. I knew you'd make this post because I've dealt with so many Tankies such as yourself that it's become all very predictable

Which brings me to why I originally pinged db0 about how they vote. This is a perfect example of why I'm specifically holding this community and dbo to this special standard, or rather, the standards they hold others to. The OP, @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world, explicitly violated the rules despite being warned and despite many chances to explain their reasoning, so they received a ban (all bans are temporary on meanwhileongrad). Yet, despite this ban being justified, within the rules, and having received multiple warnings and chances, I am still a "Power-tripping bastard"-not on the basis of my moderation, but rather my views.

To illustrate this, I pinged db0 about their support for Tankies, much as this community pings moderators as to interrogate their personal views instead of the reasoning for the bans. You even conveniently left out the reasoning for why I originally pinged him; that's bad form, and you're being disingenuous again.

See, this community regularly interferes with the posts linked. Here are examples from across the thread:

And when moderators come in to give answers for the bans, they're still attacked. I was pinged to explain why PugJesus messed up, which I did and fixed the mistake, but I was still attacked.

https://sh.itjust.works/post/42749040

In this thread, no one actually goes into what rules were broken and why they were banned. (Not that I agree with @PugJesus@lemmy.world, I don't agree with their moderation and have since removed them as Mod)

https://sh.itjust.works/post/42612816

Pug doesn't have a chance to explain their reasoning because the moderators here, specifically db0, regularly bans people and makes up rules.

"shut the fuck up liberal"

nice. imagine this community's rage if "shut the fuck up tankie" appeared in modlog... owait, it did with Pug and this community predictably raised a fit about it... But silence when it comes to db0's moderation.

Do admins have to be “apolitical” opinionless angels? @irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com

I answered No. But why do you, db0, and this community expect the same of moderators?

I also explained that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works is constantly brigaded and attacked as it is the only community that stands against Tankies across Lemmy and holds the developers of Lemmy accountable for their extremist views. We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who's interfering and from where.

However, I also regularly see members from this instance and from this community voting on comments and posts that are critical of tankies. When this is coming from the same users and community, that's rather concerning.

To quote db0,

Maybe you should start holding your community to a higher standard -- It's being captured by tankies. And I'm sure you know the history of how communists treat anarchists lol

Because nothing says anarchy as much as "shut the fuck up liberal"

I don't expect to reason with anyone from this instance or this community, but hopefully, those unfamiliar with this community, instance, and Tankies as a whole will appreciate the efforts.

thank you sincerely, this was a rare opportunity, shoutout to @blaze@lemmy.zip

I voted in those threads long before I knew this thread existed.
No. But why do you, db0, and this community expect the same of moderators?
I don't really, where did I say that?
I pinged db0 about their support for Tankies
Support for tankies being a downvote on a post?
- Should the OP have been banned?
Can you explain yourself doing genocide propaganda for Israel? https://lemmy.world/comment/19117021
- You can ask me after your ban expires
On a slightly unrelated note: I had issues with the d0 admins not enforcing their “disengage” rule when a user was harassing me on their instance after I asked them to politely to stop engaging.
- Huh, really? Did you report the person refusing to disengage?
  I check my reports all the time, i didn't see it. If so, sorry about that
- I had flatworm ban me for two weeks for a first offence against the disengagement rule and I’ve never seen that before.
  It felt personal.
- I have the same experiences
What's with these comments you've made on several occasions about having been a longtime member of voat and other neo-nazi websites? Why is a moderator of a comm visiting a neo-nazi website at all? Since you're so keen on starting shit, would you like to talk about that at all?
- Because I find extremists immensely interesting and have interacted with many of them, ranging from Christian fundamentalists to neo-nazis, to jihadists, to libertarians, to anti-vaxxers, to tankies. I like to challenge their views, and it's also educational how these groups operate and how individuals fall into extremism.
  I ended up getting banned from Voat to no surprise, which happened within days of voat opening. A year or two later, I made another account to see how the site was going, finding it was just one guy who spends the entirety of the day rambling to himself in the open chat client.
  I don't think these sites are around any longer and I expect lemmy to go down the same route soon.

The concession on a technicality that genocide isn't explicitly alleged in Amnesty's report (even if it references sources that do) does not give you a free pass to then violate the rules, which you clearly did after repeated warnings.

You received a 24h ban, which imo is justified given your rules violation. You were repeatedly given chances to walk back your rule violations, only to add more.

goats pinging of db0 was imo stupid behaviour. Admins are also users and there's nothing that requires them to justify their voting behavior. Singling them out makes no sense. db0 also shouldn't have engaged them in that thread. But goat did not abuse any mod powers or anything for this callout. Stupid as it is, it's not them power tripping. Technically mentioning it is in violation of this community's rules too:

Post only about bans or other sanctions that you have received from a mod or admin.

You were not the target of the callout, nor could the callout be considered a sanction or ban. Had goat banned db0 after the callout, that would have been PTB, but db0 would have to make the post.

YDI.

The source they refer to says it is not genocide but should be called by its actual name because it muddies te water. They proved my point.
I also just found out the mod is a massive Zionist and is still doing genocide propganda for Israel. https://lemmy.world/comment/19117021
- You still don't get it. goat conceded the point that the report doesn't literally alledge genocide, but "only" serious human rights abuses targeted at a specific demographic.
  But goat also says that focusing in on the exact verbiage is besides the point. Serious human rights abuses are serious human rights abuses. It muddies the waters and distracts from the core problem.
  Up until this point, you hadn't broken any rules. But after goat concedes the verbiage to you, he directly asks you to clarify that you do at least acknowledge the human rights abuses as alleged in the report.
  You do, but immediately deflect by stating US and European imperialism is worse. Such relativist statements are against the rules, landing you the first violation. When warned and asked to condemn it regardless, you doubled down on the relativism and also denied the targeting based on ethnicity, which resulted in your 24h ban.
  Any zionism or pro-Israeli propaganda is frankly irrelevant as it is entirely disconnected from the justification for your ban. I don't need to like goat or agree with anything else he said (and I don't, as already indicated), but you did violate the rules as stated and that's ultimately what matters.
  It's 24 hours for a genuine rule violation, a fairly minor sanction even. You weren't banned for challenging goat, and he didn't abuse his mod powers to silence you for challenging him. Based on the rules, I would have banned you too.
  YDI.
Just adding that seeing votes isn't a mod-exclusive power. Anyone can see where votes come from
- You can't see downvotes if the instance blocks lemvotes