UN experts alarmed by Alabama plan to kill prisoner using untried gas method
UN experts alarmed by Alabama plan to kill prisoner using untried gas method
Kenneth Smith is scheduled to be executed by nitrogen hypoxia which four UN monitors could amount to torture
I saw a documentary about a guy trying to find a "humane" execution method, he came to the conclusion that suffocation with nitrogen gas probably was the least bad.
It doesn't trigger a feeling of panic as CO2 poisoning does, you simply drift away in a hypoxic high filled with mild confusion without the dread.
People on both sides of the death penalty issue thought is was barbaric, proponents of the death penalty thought it was wrong to remove the suffering from the person, they felt it would be wrong to let say a serial killer just drift away in a high, while opponents of the death penalty felt it was barbaric as it would lessen the felt impact of taking a life and might cause governments to reinstate the death penalty.
It was an interesting documentary...
96That was one of Louis Theroux's phenomenal docos.
He was super confused at the end when he was met with "but we want to hurt them" it was a bit funny how jarring it was, but also really sad.
52I think I found the one I saw, it was this BBC Horizon documentary:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband/tx/executions/
https://imdb.com/title/tt1228865/
I am sure I am on a list now for googling
horizon how to kill a human being
Eh, who am I kidding, everyone is on whatever lists the powers that be decide they want us on....
14
If done right, sure.
Alabama tried to kill the person first in line already with lethal injection and failed, so the odds of them doing nitrogen gas right is pretty fucking slim.
16I understand the arguments put forth, so how about a band saw?
14I’m personally a fan of the James Bond’esque “Strap them to a Saint Andrew’s cross and slowly cut them in half with a burning laser” method.
3If you are going that route just use a liter meat grinder. Turning a pig into pulp is not new tech.
1
So both sides just wanted some blood eagle shit
6We want rehabilitation
8It was just too far removed from either side.
1
One night working late a coworker of mine nearly went that way. He was just tired and said he was spacing out. Meanwhile the alarms were blaring.
2Man if I were the guy this was first being tested on I would probably try and fuck it up in the worst way possible just to screw with the people executing me.
Like as soon as the gas turns on start screaming my ass off like they mixed up nitrogen gas with acid gas instead and produced the worst pain ever until I finally passed out.
2Pretty sure I know which one you're talking about. Was British... BBC or something... But is on YouTube.
I remember the scene where he is in a hypoxic state himself in a chamber and he needs to press a big red button or he dies. They kept telling him "press the button or you die" and he was just so high and goofy laughing about it and not pressing the button.
Very interesting show as you say.
2Just wrong. You only drift off if you are unaware that you are suffocating! The person being executed is fully aware that they are dying via suffocation. That person is going to be in full panic mode trying to get as much air into their lungs as possible.
-11Pure nitrogen gas is a significant industrial hazard for the reasons you stated. There is sure to be an element of panic since they are aware that they are being executed. That is going to be true whether the execution is being done via hypoxia, injection, or firing squad.
I suppose it depends on your exact definition of suffocating. You will absolutely be able to take full, satisfying breaths the entire time. If you do not tell them when the gas is turned on, even knowing that it's coming, they would be unlikely to even notice.
While there are no clinical studies (for obvious reasons), there is footage of industrial accidents. It seems that people succumb VERY quickly, possibly on their first full breath.
Most debates around execution methods are about the method itself. They typically exclude the morality and cruelty of the idea of a death penalty in general. I don't think this one can be separated, though. The concern is that it's untested for executions, but the only way to test it is to use it for executions. There is ample evidence of its use on livestock, but this is of limited value for humans.
As a side note, no medical doctors can be involved with executions. It's a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
14
So before people freak out too much- and yes, executions shouldn’t be a thing (I personally make a few exceptions… but I’m an asshole…) let’s take a moment and realize that nitrogen hypoxia is the method used in suicide pods
While yeah, the moments before it happen are probably terrifying for the condemned- and that probably is where they’re getting “torture” from… it’s far less painful and awful a way to go… than lethal injection or electric chairs or old-school gas chambers;
57- 1
Yes, executions are barbaric. I won’t argue there (and will join you in their condemnation,)
It sounds as though they fucked it up, though. Industrial accidents with inert gassed flooding a room of unsuspecting people are pretty rare (most rooms aren’t sealed, etc,) there are cases where people never notice before dropping.
Shoulda known ‘bama would fuck it up somehow,
1
The mental state of the person is the difference. One person has willingly placed themselves in the suicide pod, while the other is likely to fight for air. If we're going to execute people we shouldn't be pacifying with that actually means.
-1So people on death row should suffer from more cruel methods? They should run the risk of botched executions from people that received no training? Nitrogen is safe and effective. Put a mask on, open the tank. That's it. Do we need to complicate the process? Would that make it better in your eyes? If we're going to execute people (which we fucking shouldn't) why do we have to make it worse?
16while the other is likely to fight for air.
The body doesn't actually sense the amount of oxygen in your blood. Instead, there's assorted ways it detects elevated levels of CO2.
That works great when you're e.g. swimming under water or are holding your breath. Low oxygen naturally coincides with excess CO2.
But it's dangerous in low oxygen environments. CO2 doesn't build up, so you don't sense that you're running low on oxygen.
People die accidentally from inert gas asphyxiation. It's sneaky like that.
7
This is honestly stupid.
They spent insane amount of cash to kill the guy, yet even then they keep failing to do just that.
Either just give him the heavily tested (on animals) and scientifically supported nitrogen, if you really need to kill him that bad or just send him to a damn prison and forget about him.
31? They ARE giving him the nitrogen. I'm guessing these experts didn't want to jump into the Israel fight so found something else to focus on.
5Issue is, this isn't the first time I'm reading about someone complaining about the execution method.
The guy's lawyers were raising complaints about it as well, most likely to try to postpone the execution.
Every day the guy's alive costs the state money, it costs the time of his lawyers, judges and these "experts" and for what? To postpone his death a couple months? To have him get an arguably more painful and error-prone executiom method?
It's just a waste of resources. Either kill him if they must or stash him away for the rest of his life in a high security prison, this circus is unproductive for all parties involved.
1
I completely forgot america is still killing animals in shelters with gas chambers. Completely crazy how people there think that is ok
1It's ok because if they're killing them in the first place, nitrogen is quite a "peaceful" way to do it
0
The primary point is that some states have not yet managed to arrive in the 20th century and abandon capital punishment altogether. And yes, I meant 20th century, not 21st.
The method of killing people is just a measurement of how politically retarded they are.
26... Alabama is now asking for volunteers to try it out on first. UN experts are yet to sign up.
20Alabama is the trailer park of the US
18Mobile homes legit got their names, not for their mobility, but for their production site.
Mobile, Alabama.
18Do you have a source for that fun detail? Wikipedia doesn’t mention Mobile Alabama anywhere in their article on mobile homes, and I can’t find any history of a brand named Mobile Homes or any company based out of Mobile that would have caused this etymology to become the default term.
Edit: nevermind I found a valid source. Snopes has a great summary of the Alabama history.
18This is the kind of cross-section of weird & informative that I'm looking for in my life.
chef's kiss 🤌
1
It's one of several in the US
1
This is a dilemma.
On the merits of nitrogen hypoxia as a method of execution:
Nitrogen hypoxia is one of the most peaceful, least painful deaths available, and the concerns of a tortuous death are pretty unrealistic.The air we breathe is 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen, so the body has no adverse reaction to nitrogen. Remove the oxygen, so the person breathes 100% nitrogen 0% oxygen, and the air will feel normal, there is no feeling of suffocation or shortness of breath. However without oxygen one will lose consciousness within a minute or two, and be dead in 5-10 minutes.
For reference, airplanes are pressurized at high altitudes because the less dense air contains fewer molecules of oxygen per lung volume. Past about 11,000' above sea level, there's not enough oxygen in the air to sustain full consciousness. Here's a video of that- the alarm is going off in that guy's airplane because the pressurization system failed. But in an oxygen-deprived state, he happily reports to the controller with a smile that he's totally unable to control his aircraft but other than that everything is peachy. You'll note he is totally unbothered by his condition.
When the controller orders him to descend to 11,000 feet, air density increases, his brain starts working normally again, and he starts making coherent radio calls.The point of this isn't to be funny, it's to illustrate that in a hypoxic state he was totally calm and happy and not in any distress at all, even though his aircraft was out of control. So if anything, nitrogen hypoxia might be the most peaceful way to die, as in their final moments the condemned may be less concerned about the fact that they are being executed.
The only possible 'botch' I can imagine, is if either the condemned isn't breathing 100% nitrogen, or the nitrogen is shut off before breathing stops, that could leave the condemned in a state of hypoxic brain damage. That could leave him a vegetable, or alive and awake but brain damaged (low IQ, cognitive problems, etc). That's the sort of state most places consider 'unfit to stand trial' and he gets remanded to a care facility probably for life. And that would require a pretty bad botching to create that situation.
But I still hope the complaint stalls things:
On the other hand, I think execution is a barbaric punishment, and I think we should do all we can to abolish it anywhere it still exists. So I support this group, even though their concerns are unscientific to the point of ridicule.I also suspect I'm very much not alone here. I'm not a doctor, but I am a private pilot and a scuba diver, so I understand what a body needs in terms of breathing gas a bit more than average. I know for a fact I could write a totally bulletproof execution protocol that would provide a reliable, quick, humane, pain-free death. But if I was asked to, I'd refuse, even if it meant giving the condemned a less painful death. Because if such a protocol existed, if the legal system as a whole recognized nitrogen hypoxia as a quick and painless method of execution, that then removes a hurdle for pro-death-penalty states to start executing people.
I suspect I'm not alone because the knowledge I have is far from uncommon. Ask any pilot or astronaut or person involved with breathing gas systems and they'll tell you the same thing. Yet, few if any seem to be stepping up to 'solve' the problem of a humane execution protocol.Gives me hope for the future of humanity.
13Yeah, I haven't and won't make a plan but have often thought to myself that if I ever do kill myself that's how I'm gonna do it. Literally just like falling asleep. I'd much much much rather take that than lethal injection
2That's the way I am going to most likely go. One day get some medical test result that doesn't look good, login remotely to one of the many industrial sites I help manage, set off an alarm for the weekend, come in to the nitrogen storage room, replace the gasket on a valve with a worn out one, then go to sleep for the last time.
Family gets a huge out of court settlement and I don't spend months of pointless medical torture.
3
Yes, nitrogen hypoxia is untried as a method of intentional execution.
But it's well-understood as a method of suicide, and as a way of accidentally dying.
It's just about the most pleasant, least awful way to die. Your body is wired to detect dangerously high blood levels of CO2, not dangerously low blood levels of O2. So you breathe out CO2, breathe in pure nitrogen, and you get none of that panic feeling that you would normally get if your airway was cut off. It's like breathing in helium from a balloon; you feel short of breath and get light headed. If it continues, you quickly pass out. IIRC, this was the method of suicide advocated by the former Hemlock Society, back in the bad old days before even Dr. Jack Kevorkian.
I ain't sayin' that Alabama uses the death penalty appropriately. (Yes, I support the death penalty, but not in the overwhelming majority of the cases where it's used now.) But if you're going to execute people, this is probably one of the most humane ways to do it.
8Any unanamed "gas" in the headline will be converted to "farts" in the mind of the reader.
5'Well, we gon' try it!'
4