Opposition to the butchery in Gaza
Opposition to the butchery in Gaza


Opposition to the butchery in Gaza
I dont oppose donald trump because im a democrat or a liberal.
I oppose donald trump because im not a fucking psychopath.
Opposing donald trump is so obvious, so common sense, such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, being a human 101 position that if it isn't immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic facts, your problem is, much, much deeper than whatever ideology or bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There's something wrong with you as a person.
Even most of the conservative politicians in the US seemed to take this approach, until he started winning (read also: liberal politicians failed to counter his right-wing populism).
What is the point of this completely off topic non-sequitor?
It's the same template as the original post. Parallels are being drawn between support for Trump and support for Israeli genocide.
According to a recent pen state uni poll, 80% of Israeli society support the forced removal of Palestinians from Gaza. If we follow the reasoning in this post, the Israeli society is kinda locco ◑﹏◐
Either that, or the psychological abuse techniques that militaries do to turn normal people into obedient soldiers are effective. Israel has compulsory military service, so nearly all of the population of the country went through it. That's how they get that 80% support.
I mean.... I've been saying similar stuff for a while. I'm not on anyone's side specifically. I live far enough away to not be affected by the situation and for my opinion to have no affect on the situation. Simply put: it's not useful for me to have an opinion, so I don't have one.
HOWEVER: I always have and always will oppose the unnecessary death and cruelty happening. Doesn't matter where, or who, or when... If some group is killing another group, I don't like that.
The only good reason to use violence on a global stage is to stop violence; aka self defense. Like what's happening to the Ukraine, as a simple example. The Ukraine is well within their right to defend themselves and their land from a foreign invader. I am opposed to the Russian army marching across international borders and seizing land by killing whomever tries to stop them and/or whomever is there. Not cool. I dislike Russia's actions there. I don't dislike Russia's or Russians, I don't have a problem with any individual person. I have a problem with the decision that was made at the highest levels of government to invade.
Same thing here. I could not care less which side is comprised of what people's of what culture or religion.... I just don't like that one group is invading/bombing/killing the other. I have no animosity towards those defending themselves, trying to not get killed...
I don't know why everyone needs to make every opinion on the matter a question of race, religion, or whatever. I don't care, just stop murdering eachother.
Note: It's Ukraine, not "the Ukraine".
Calling it "the Ukraine" is Russian propaganda.
https://theconversation.com/its-ukraine-not-the-ukraine-heres-why-178748
For some people it's just habit. Ukraine has been commonly known in the West as "the" Ukraine for a very long time, and humans are known to make mistakes.
I only know her from claiming there will be no Russian invasion while it already had begun. Later, she is peddling Russian propaganda. Moron.
Thanks for letting me know. I've edited out her details so only the message is visible.
You shouldn't blame Zionism on a mental illness. Zionism is a choice to be awful.
I think all fascism is a mental illness.
Luckily, there is a treatment, as demonstrated by one of its most famous sufferers. It can even be self administered!
I'm all for suicide jokes, but equating fascism with mental illness is taking the joke too far.
Faith isn’t the reason, it’s the excuse
I didn't say it was faith either. It's not mental illness or faith.
Are bad/lacking morals a mental illness? Seriously, at what point do we draw the line? It's a curious topic.
No, they're not. When psychologists become the arbiters of correct morality and pathologise disagreement, society is fucked.
You're thinking of what happens when good people make the rules. But what if people like Freud were in charge of calling certain moral values illnesses? We already have enough problems with things like homosexuality being called a mental illness. What if Trump Derangement Syndrome were in the DSM?
That's not what she does. Being a bad person or even being a psychopath is not considered a mental illness.
In a certain sense you're right; psychop*th is Greek for "suffering soul". It's supposed to just refer to the abstract idea of mental illness. But in practice, it's a slur against ASPD. And even if that weren't the case, using the Greek word for mentally ill person as an insult is disgusting behaviour.
This will be a terrible mark on human history. When the world watched as internet personalities sailed into Gaza to provide aid. When we did nothing as women and children starved to death before our eyes.
Who will be ignored next?
My entire school life there was so much pontification over what "you" would do during segregation or the Holocaust or slavery?
Turns out my entire family would grow a toothbrush moustaches and start painting vegan landscapes while I kept working because the cost of living rises more than wages and I long for the reprieve of death.
Who will be ignored next?
These aren't next, these are already forgotten even though they're catastrophes. Hell, even Ukraine is being forgotten even though it's one the biggest wars in 21st century. When India and Pakistan looked like they were about to go to war, this Israel/Palestine war was also pushed to the back of people's minds.
I think this is the just the nature of humans. People want to think they're noble and righteous, but they won't actually do anything, and the moment a new war starts they'll move on to that because it's new and we have short attention spands.
How fast we forgot Syria. Erdogan still bombing Kobane for example.
I think it's media bias and sensationalism. It happens when journalism has a profit incentive and is owned by 4 or 5 oligarchs/ultra-wealthy.
How is ukraine forgetten we're constantly told that we should buy more bombs. Meanwhile i can't see my mum because hospitals are understaffed
Who will be ignored next?
I hate to say it, but there hasn’t been a time in modern history where there weren’t women and children starving while the rest of the world did nothing.
Isn't being against war and genocide the same as anti-imperialism? I hate how saying "War is bad" has become so controversial and extremist.
This is only looking at the surface level....
It's not that "war is bad" in this case. It's that people fear that it's a small jump from "the govt of Israel is bad for killing Gazans" to "Israel is bad" to "the idea of Israel is bad" to "Jews are bad".
"Yeah but Palestinians are subhuman and therefore don't deserve human empathy" - Israel, probably actually
Animal stereotypes of Palestinians in Israeli discourse - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse
Jesus, how much have the Zionists modified that Wiki article? A text supposedly about how Israelis dehumanize Palestinians repeatedly starts by reciting the issue with Palestinians and Muslims dehumanizing Jews? This is the first mention of the details of dehumanization:
"Among Palestinians, Israelis have been referred to as pigs, dogs, and bloodsucking vampires, while in Israeli discourse references to Palestinians as savage animals and or repugnant critters has also been attested, and at least once, protesting Gazans have been described as mere ammunition weaponized by their "cannibal" leaders."
And this is the first paragraph under "Background":
"Even though Jews, like a number of other religious minorities, Christians included, were accorded protected status in Islamic societies, the use of abusive stereotypes was not uncommon, some of them were grounded in Quranic and early scholarly traditions."
Is this about Israeli dehumanization of Palestinians? WTF? Let's always start by reciting how Muslims maybe kind of deserve it, or maybe bring the dehumanization on themselves.
No but you antisemites just dont understand! Exterminating the hamas people is the culture of the jewish people¹. So really, by stopping the 'genocide', youre actually doing genocide against a proud 5000 year old culture! Youre literally hitler, who was actually just an innocent tool duped by hamas btw.
¹those weak subhuman diaspora 'jews' may try to mislead you about that. Clearly this is just internalized antisemitism.
Out of curiosity I checked out the inverse article and to my great surprise (/s) it didn’t start by mentioning israely dehumanization of palestinians. It sid however mention someone’s opinion that dehumanization was ignored when palestinians did it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Jews_in_Palestinian_discourse
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
Israel is destroying its reputation and its future with its current actions. Yet no power in the world can stop them today, because they have waay too many weapons.
I think there will be consequences for innocent Jews who have nothing to do with the Israeli genocide. This sort of behavior gives ammo and a perception of legitimacy to antisemites. Israel is making things harder for Jews worldwide for years to come.
This is why it is important to separate anti-semitism and anti-zionism.
Have there been consequences for the United States' or Canada's genocides against Indigenous peoples? Not really.
People can just get away with things unless you make them pay for it.
EDIT case in point, 200 years from now we could be celebrating the jewel of democracy Israel, while "acknowledging its troubled past" but you're still doing this over the bones of the people your predecessors slaughtered. I'm not even saying it wouldn't be genuine, like people today in the US and Canada bemoan the actions of previous colonizers. But the fact of what happened remains immutable. The slaughter happened, and the people who committed it accomplished their aims. They got away with it.
The death of religious spirituality at the hands of religious identity.
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
Possibly, but that won't help the dead kids. The focus must be on stopping the genocide as quickly as possible. Finding and punishing the perps can wait.
I think there will be consequences for Israel's crimes, just not today.
I hope you're right.
let's discuss why people are supporting governments, politicians and companies backing the genocide
Follow the money
Also racism
It’s actually a little hard for me to understand why there’s money there. Are there really just that many rich Israelis? What money is there in genocide?
Because western ideology is ultimately ultranationalism, they will always support their country against others.
Yes, but I'm also a commie lol.
This astrology grifter is phony AF. She suddenly became political a few years ago by promoting the invasion of ukraine. Peak russian asset.
Notice the implied anti-semitism and missing zionism. It's a pattern.
Please don't promote this crap just because it sounds "good". Free Palestine.
What antisemitism is being implied?
This astrology grifter is phony AF.
Ad hominem. Doesn't invalidate the words above.
Notice the implied anti-semitism and missing zionism.
I noticed no implied anti-semitism. I noticed explicit criticism of the Israeli government.
Please don't promote this crap just because it sounds "good".
True. Promote it to highlight the genocide that is currently occurring.
Free Palestine.
Agreed, but I suspect yours isn’t genuine.
"She suddenly became political a few years ago by promoting the invasion of ukraine. Peak russian asset."
Is it an ad hominem when you include the rest which explains the claim made you excerpted?
Thanks for the headsup. I've edited out her details so only the message is visible.
how do I boost on lemmy
One thing I've noticed is that many people will accuse you of supporting genocide if you say anything positive about Israel (and by that I mean anything not explicitly negative), or fail to condemn anybody who has failed to condemn Israel, or if you don't spit immediately after saying the word "Israel". Same if you point out that the Biden administration in November was actively negotiating the ceasefire that went into effect a day or two after Trump's inauguration, even as people were calling Harris a nazi and refusing to vote for her because she was "complicit". It's like people expect world politics and diplomacy to operate at the same speed as meme outrage.
This person LOVES HITLER!
-The ADL and MOST American Politicians!
OMG, so antisemitic... /s
NGL... Yuh
You can spot lizard people by their lack of empathy towards humans. Clear sign they aren't human.
I don't know how the average minimum wage worker can have the time to even care about world events when they are constantly under the threat of getting fired and stuggle to afford food.
Caring has nothing to do with your paycheck, caring is about basic human empathy. I wouldn't be surprised when lower income would care more than higher.
Its not about that, of course they care, that is - if they even know about such thing happening. Do you think wage-slaves have time to do research into complex global politics? The mainsteam media downplays the genocide so much that most people believe that the genocide is "hyperbole". Do you know how much money Israel has spent on propaganda? When the media focuses solely on October 7th, but then deletes everything after that, how are people supposed to even learn about the genocide?
Let me tell you for example, I told my aunt that the trump admin is deliberately trying to deport innocent people in the US, and she's like "Oh really? I think you're exaggerating" (for context: we are non-white immigrants) like she's not an evil person, just ignorant as fuck, not even reading the news.
How can they have time to consume media that talk about Gaza?
That's one way to control the crowds, make them too busy to think outside the rat race.
You'll find that kind of bs from every extremist faction, "oh you support Gaza, immigration, human rights and welfare, you must be a woke tankie communist" and "oh you're not an anti-capitalist far-left anti-money extremist commie tankie, you must be a dirty fascist" basically a summary or american politics🤦♂️ 🤡
Edit: the downvotes are just proving my point lol I'm literally saying the exact same thing said in the screenshot. There's not just two opposing extremes there's nuance to things, don't fight stupidity with stupidity, just cause magas fascist and extreme doesn't mean I should go find the equally opposing extreme.
I don't disagree with Trump just cause he's Trump, I disagree with his actions and the bs he says, and based off of those actions I think he's a knobhead and do not like him. When he pardoned Ross Ulbricht I didn't say, well it was done by Trump so it was evil. Do I think he did it for his own personal motives or gain and votershare? Yes, but I do believe he deserved freedom, and Trump did it for the wrong reasons.
Americans don't get it's not the centre of the universe sometimes.
I'm including a link from a news report released yesterday at the bottom of this comment.
I'll save you from actually clicking on it and watching this horrific video, and just let you know, it's a 5 yo girl in Gaza trapped in a burning building after it was bombed by the Israeli army. The building is a former school the girl had been sheltering in along with her parents, younger sibling, and several others.
She screams in pain as she desperately tries to escape from the flames, and people outside scream for help as they watch her running around inside. Luckily a fireman was able to help her escape, but she was horribly burned and lost her entire family. The reporter later finds her in a hospital several weeks later, trying to recover and crying out for her mother.
If you still feel from that description that ignoring what is happening right now is acceptable or you're pretending it can somehow be justified in any context, you should make yourself watch the video. Keep in mind this is one of countless stories like it.
It's extremely disturbing because what's happening is literally extreme and should make any human capable of empathy uncomfortable. It's easier to ignore it and pretend it's not happening, but that's always the case with genocide.
If watching the video and knowing all of this still changes nothing for you, then you should also know you are literally showing callous and unemotional traits associated with psychopathy. That's not BS, it's a fact of reality.
BRO, did I not say I was staunchly against Zionism. I explicitly said that, I mentioned how in the screenshot the person making the post said that she isn't against Israel because she's a communist, anti-Jews, anarchist or far-left, but because she's against genocide. Fuck Israel and Zionism but not Jews, I could not make that any more clear, I'm saying extremists always believe that when people disagree with anything at all they automatically believe they are extreme in the opposite direction.
Antitanks trying to not bring up tankies in every conversation challenge: impossible
I also do not oppose them for those same reasons.
Also all of those reasons (except love hamas/hate jews), but not just because of those.
Haha, I read your comment pre-edit at first but assumed it was an oversight!
I also agree with your agreement with OP to not oppose them for those same reasons.
Don't bother with people stuck in earlier stages of development. All they hear are excuses and immorality
I would rather bother them very loudly.
Liberals just can't get enough of that thought policing.
I agree with all this but I feel like Americans are the last people who should lead such a movement. To so many of us, the ones your country has raped and destroyed without apology, i roll my eyes at Americans calling for the end of colonization, genocides and war. It’s like you guys think if you go hard on this war, it will forgive all the centuries of genocide. My people were treated like refuse by Americans for decades, then without apology or reparations , white American kids are now preaching at my indigenous ass about privilege and genocide.
You can’t even call out the hypocrisy or you get hated on. I’ve never experienced as much hate and racism towards my culture from the left, as I have this past 2 years. You expect that shit from the right, but the American left went insane this cycle too
The people that treated your people like refuse are not the same people as the ones protesting against atrocities.
Lumping a whole population together and stereotyping them is wrong, no matter who you're targeting with your stereotypes.
It certainly gets complicated when America is such a melting pot, and it’s consistently the white overlords who engineer those atrocities.
And yes, many, but not all, of the white underlings choose to give them their full support. As a white underling throwing them the middle finger, I have no idea why.
That being said their point is America shouldn't lead this charge and IMO that's fair given America's support of Israel.
How convenient. You get the enjoy the benefits with none of the guilt, and you can still moralize to the colonized
I am for a 2 state solution, and a version of the Neuremburg Trials for both the IDF and Hamas for their crimes against humanity. Gaza should be a part of Palestine, as with the West Bank, with the settlers in both having to move back, and return the land to it's owners prior. Palestine and Israel seperated by UN peacekeepers at both sides, is my solution for preventing further invasions. Free and fair elections for Palestine, should occur. Both those who think 1 state as Israel or Palestine are insane.
How do you split that baby?
I forgot to mention, making it easy to cross the border is another thing I believe there should be. Something like the 1950s agreement line?
You look at the ones who have been bombing historical sites and give it to the others.
For real. I genuinely like Israel and have many israeli friends still but the incompetence of Israel government is so staggering it's imposdible to align with even if you think Hamas deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history.
Recent polls show 81% of the Israeli population agree that Palestine should be ethnically cleansed. It's not just the government, and it's not "incompetence", it's deliberate malice.
And Hamas's crimes are a drop in the ocean compared to Israel, so if you think Hamas "deserves nothing but be deleted and forgotten by all of history," what do you think Israel deserves?
They're both terrorists, why try to defend hamas? A bad situation doesn't excuse massacre. Both are guilty.
You explain it very well. However, I don't think it's necessarilly their opinion that Gaza deserves deleting.
You genuinely like an apartheid regime?
Despite that it's the only country in the middle east where you'll not be tortured and murdered for being gay so umm there's clearly something to like here, no?
i didn’t read it like that… i read it in the same way that you might read that you like many american people, but their government are frequently massive twats… the country is not the people, and in both cases there was (is) genocide involved
I don't X, because Y.
❌ confusing
I do X, not because Y.
✔️ clear
also
image of text
no link to source
no alt text
breaks web & accessibility
cringe
I smell toast.
Nah, like usual, religion is solely to blame here.
Conflating Zionism with Judaism is how you create antisemitism. One of the largest constituencies of antizionism is in the Jewish community itself.
All religions are evil. This specific one is causing the genocide in Gaza right now.
If you think religion is solely to blame here, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This goes back to the british mandate, WW1 and the arab revolt; not just religion.
This is settler colonialism, judaism != zionism.
Religion obviously does have some part in this, but to pin this genocide solely on "religion" is ignorant, and reductive.
Absolutely, religion is at the heart of fascism. But it's probably not the religion that you're thinking of...
Ah, yes, the genocide and its fascist underpinnings created by seculer atheists inspired by Renaissance and Enlightenment ideals are completely the fault of religion.
Aka muslims deserved it. Hardcore atheists are cringe af